10 Jun 08
Originally posted by twhiteheadmost religions preach repentance. so evil can be changed into good. and no absolute evil exists only different shades. and sometimes evil can be good.
Evil is a being deserving of benevolence? Thats news to me. Will evil be saved and allowed into heaven too?
so yes, evil is deserving of benevolence
10 Jun 08
Originally posted by ZahlanziYou just haven't thought it through.
i would. and i don;t agree i would be stupid.
i would like to live my own life and if i have any successes i want them to be my "fault". and i want to be able to make mistakes so i can learn from them just in case the hand that helps me is withdrawn.
Aha. So the hand can be withdrawn? But then the problems are not in fact solved. Also, if you actually want to get hurt, then why is it a problem?
if someone tells you a riddle, would you like a person to tell you the answer?
Riddles are a problem? How so? I thought they were entertainment.
Maybe you just don't know what problems really are.
10 Jun 08
Originally posted by ZahlanziIf someone told me they'd make sure all my research worked, that I never would have to worry about money, or food, or finding a new job I'd take it. If someone told me that they could solve all my problems, with no catch, I'd do it in a second.
i would. and i don;t agree i would be stupid.
You'd have to be crazy or masochistic to deny that kind of offer.
10 Jun 08
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadit seems, analogies are a bit beyond you today. usually you are sharper than this.
You just haven't thought it through.
[b]i would like to live my own life and if i have any successes i want them to be my "fault". and i want to be able to make mistakes so i can learn from them just in case the hand that helps me is withdrawn.
Aha. So the hand can be withdrawn? But then the problems are not in fact solved. Also, if you actually ...[text shortened]... so? I thought they were entertainment.
Maybe you just don't know what problems really are.[/b]
fine, not only riddles. problems. (big problems, little problems, all problems, even riddles(the entertaining ones))
I have a problem. and then another, and another. i can solve them in time or maybe not, but failing in one problem would make me better for the next one. However there is this annoying god(or pixie if you want) that hovers over me and before i can find the answer, he tells it to me. now i cannot take credit for the solving of the problem(s) because i didn't actually solved them. i was born, i grew up, i grew old and died and accomplished absolutely nothing because everything was solved for me by the annoying god. i might as well have been a plant.(a pine tree would be my preference).
you have limited time to live and you would like a being to make it as challenge free as possible? you are a sinner in your religion.
10 Jun 08
1 edit
Originally posted by scottishinnzthen we have a different understanding of what it means to live.
If someone told me they'd make sure all my research worked, that I never would have to worry about money, or food, or finding a new job I'd take it. If someone told me that they could solve all my problems, with no catch, I'd do it in a second.
You'd have to be crazy or masochistic to deny that kind of offer.
make no mistakes, if someone offered me a million dollars, i would take it too. or if i had a medical condition that just won't go away, i would accept an offer for a cure.
but accepting someone to solve every and i mean absolutely every problem you have for the rest of your life is a different story. and we are not talking about someone you can turn down if you get bored and actually want to do something yourself. because i can understand that as well, unlimited help for a limited time. i am talking about something once accepted that won't go away. would you accept a life where nothing exciting would happen to you? a life from which you had no satisfactions? on your death bed when you tally your achievements what would you have?
Day 1: mysterious helping dude attaches to me and begins solving everything.
Last Day: i die.
10 Jun 08
Originally posted by ZahlanziI can do lots of exciting things which aren't problems.
then we have a different understanding of what it means to live.
make no mistakes, if someone offered me a million dollars, i would take it too. or if i had a medical condition that just won't go away, i would accept an offer for a cure.
but accepting someone to solve every and i mean absolutely every problem you have for the rest of your life is a d ...[text shortened]... Day 1: mysterious helping dude attaches to me and begins solving everything.
Last Day: i die.
I could go bungi-jumping (again), for example. How about sky diving? I could do my karate.
I would have no problems.
10 Jun 08
Originally posted by scottishinnzwho would pack your parachute? the problem solving dude? if we agree that the problem solving dude solves any problem, how can he allow you to go sky diving if there is a chance you would encounter a problem (go splat against the ground)
I can do lots of exciting things which aren't problems.
I could go bungi-jumping (again), for example. How about sky diving? I could do my karate.
I would have no problems.
bungee means adrenaline. potential danger. if there is no danger because of your problem solving dude how much fun will you have?
you could agree that sometimes you would desire to give the dude a vacation and take some problems on your own.
10 Jun 08
Originally posted by ZahlanziNo, it is just that I can spot a false analogy a mile away.
it seems, analogies are a bit beyond you today. usually you are sharper than this.
You are simultaneously claiming that a riddle is both a problem (undesirable) and desirable.
... but failing in one problem would make me better for the next one.
Yes I always like the phrase "that which does not kill you makes you stronger".
Of course there are always the problems which kill you. 🙂
However, the initial scenario was someone who solves all your problems, not just the ones that train you for the harder ones. If only some problems are solved then the bigger problem is not solved, and the trainer problems are actually not problems at all but training.
However there is this annoying god(or pixie if you want) that hovers over me and before i can find the answer, he tells it to me. now i cannot take credit for the solving of the problem(s) because i didn't actually solved them.
Then it is incorrect to call them problems. I think you are just playing on words.
you have limited time to live and you would like a being to make it as challenge free as possible?
No, I said problem free. I do not consider all challenges to be a problem.
you are a sinner in your religion.
I don't know what you mean.
10 Jun 08
Originally posted by twhiteheadI don't know what you mean.
No, it is just that I can spot a false analogy a mile away.
You are simultaneously claiming that a riddle is both a problem (undesirable) and desirable.
[b]... but failing in one problem would make me better for the next one.
Yes I always like the phrase "that which does not kill you makes you stronger".
Of course there are always the proble ...[text shortened]... s to be a problem.
you are a sinner in your religion.
I don't know what you mean.[/b]
atheists claim they don't need god. you need someone to solve your problems. you are a sinner in your religion
No, I said problem free. I do not consider all challenges to be a problem.
what's with you today? i said problems as in all that could happen to you. challenges are a problem that you foresee a solution to. a challenge that is unsolved becomes a problem. but that is merely semantics. problem is every possible thing that can happen to you. walking is a problem you solve by putting a foot in front of the other. eating is a problem. some ar more complex than others and some are easily solved that you don't even count them as problems. did i explained it enough?
Then it is incorrect to call them problems. I think you are just playing on words.
your opinion. with no arguments. you say i am playing on words. what is your definition of a problem?
my definition is that a problem is anything that requires a solution. if the solution is always given to you by some problem solving dude i submit that you are depending on the dude, you are a parasite that probably won;t survive on its own,
argue this
10 Jun 08
Originally posted by ZahlanziWrong. Athiests claim that God does not exist. A claim about needs is not part of the definition of atheism. However I guess that it is reasonable to assume that nobody can legitimately claim to need a nonexistent entity, so yes, I dont think I need God.
atheists claim they don't need god. you need someone to solve your problems. you are a sinner in your religion
I never said I need someone to solve my problems, I said that if someone was willing to solve my problems I would welcome it. Again, I cannot need a non existent entity (in this case even you admit that a being willing to solve all my problems does not exist).
Lastly, I do not have a religion, and do not know of a definition of 'sin' that I believe in.
what's with you today? i said problems as in all that could happen to you.
And whats with you? Why not say 'all that can happen to you' instead of using the word 'problem' in a totally nonstandard way? At least tell us when you choose to make up words.
did i explained it enough?
Well now at least I know what you mean (certainly not what any sane person would have thought your origional post ment).
It also means that your initial post did not answer the question of the thread, which was why God doesn't get rid of evil.
you are a parasite that probably won;t survive on its own,
And what makes you so sure I want to survive on my own? If someone could get rid of malaria and AIDS I would welcome thier help, not sit back and say "but I want to be tough and survive on my own!".
You are trying to play the old 'where does it stop' argument. Esentially you are claiming that God can do nothing without causing a catastrophe due to his inability to stop. He cannot stop one ounce of suffering because then he would get carried away with himself and stop time and possibly even make the universe vanish from existence. Its basically a claim of 'all or nothing' with 'all' being terrible therefore 'nothing' is preferable. Rather a shallow argument if you ask me.
10 Jun 08
Originally posted by twhitehead"Athiests claim that God does not exist. "
Wrong. Athiests claim that God does not exist. A claim about needs is not part of the definition of atheism. However I guess that it is reasonable to assume that nobody can legitimately claim to need a nonexistent entity, so yes, I dont think I need God.
I never said I need someone to solve my problems, I said that if someone was willing to solve my prob ...[text shortened]... le therefore 'nothing' is preferable. Rather a shallow argument if you ask me.
why doesn't god exist? because as leibniz said, there is no need of that theory. so it is logical to assume atheists do not need a God to believe in.
"(in this case even you admit that a being willing to solve all my problems does not exist)."
when did i do that? i simply said that such a being would cripple you to such degree that you could hardly call yourself an independent self sustainable organism. you might not need it(if you did, you would die in the very near future) but the fact that you would be willing to let it attach to you says a lot of your view on life. i for one would refuse its help as i don't use cheat codes when i play computer games or why i don't steal money. because i want to accomplish things on my own with as little outside help as possible.
you are a programmer and you don't understand the use of the word problem to describe a situation that requires a solution? if one uses a word with different meanings must he explain to each of the audience what meaning he is using?
the problem solving dude will solve every problem not only some. that was my question "if someone would offer to solve every problem you have or will have would you take it?". i already said i would accept occasional and partial help, just not
since we come back to god issue, tell me, what problems would you like him to solve for you? if somalia's hunger problem is solved, china would want help with the earthquake. then the english would want nicer weather, we romanians would more wealth or our footbal team to win Euro2008 but of course that would upset the french who too want Euro2008. Tell me, how is God going to decide who to help? because making a miracle demands another and another. you say god could stop. but stopping is unfair for the people that haven't been helped. Tell me, is humanity incapable of solving problems? why would you want outside help?
God doesn't help us and i thank him for this. we have a limited time on this earth and we spend it on stupid things. half we sleep through half of it. the rest is spent on advancement, on "I made fire!!!!" and "I invented the wheel" "I made internet". If things are just offered to us what can you say we accomplish with our lives? Should we all be filthy rich, no worry for tomorrow and then go skydiving like scott said? how long before you get bored?
10 Jun 08
1 edit
Originally posted by clearlightif your parents see you fall on your ass and get a bruise but don't help you get up does it mean they are indifferent? removing all pain and all challenges around an organism means that organism is denied progress, and it will either never evolve or it will die if the condition change slightly
"Your error (and Epicuris'😉is statement 2. The ability to prevent evil and not doing so is not equivalent to malevolence".
It would however, be indicative of indifference would it not? And indifference is hardly compatible with a loving god.