Whence cometh Evil?

Originally posted by SwissGambit
How does a tsunami that kills thousands of people further God's plan, or test his children?

We cannot know the mind and thoughts of God. His ways are not our ways. You know, we're just puny humans.

Originally posted by twhitehead
What is the purpose of the test? Is God incapable of knowing what a person is like unless he makes them suffer?

God knows; the person He's testing does not. 😏

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
We cannot know the mind and thoughts of God.

Then we cannot know if God is loving, or benevolent. We can only judge from his actions, or lack thereof.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Then we cannot know if God is loving, or benevolent. We can only judge from his actions, or lack thereof.

We can know....at least some of us can. 🙂

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
We can know....at least some of us can. 🙂

It's kind of like a mobster's wife. When he gets home, she hugs and kisses him, and doesn't ask too many questions about the bloodstains on his hands.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
It's kind of like a mobster's wife. When he gets home, she hugs and kisses him, and doesn't ask too many questions about the bloodstains on his hands.

Hardly sir. We understand he bloodstains on His hands all TOO well. 🙂

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Hardly sir. We understand he bloodstains on His hands all TOO well. 🙂

And then again - some mob wives are like the one in Goodfellas - their husband's occupation turns them on a bit.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
And then again - some mob wives are like the one in Goodfellas - their husband's occupation turns them on a bit.

I wouldn't know about mob wives and husbands and Godfellas.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
you are a programmer and you don't understand the use of the word problem to describe a situation that requires a solution? if one uses a word with different meanings must he explain to each of the audience what meaning he is using?

I am perfectly well aware of the various meanings of the word 'problem'. However context is everything, and the context in which you used it in the origional post implied that it was refering to undesirable events. I suspect that you realized fairly soon that that is how I (and others) interpreted it, but you failed to correct us until much later. What a time waster!

since we come back to god issue, tell me, what problems would you like him to solve for you? if somalia's hunger problem is solved, china would want help with the earthquake. then the english would want nicer weather, we romanians would more wealth or our footbal team to win Euro2008 but of course that would upset the french who too want Euro2008. Tell me, how is God going to decide who to help? because making a miracle demands another and another.
As I said, there 'where would he stop' arguement. And as I said, a very shallow narrowminded argument indeed. I am sure you know it is flawed so why are you using it? Do you refuse to help others on the same grounds? Or is it the only explanation you can come up with to explain the existence of evil, so you just blank your mind out to the obvious stupidity of it?

Tell me, is humanity incapable of solving problems?
Yes. The earth quake happenned in China didn't it? If humanity could have stopped it, they would have.

how long before you get bored?
Well why don't you give me all your money, and let me worry about the bordom while you have fun facing the problems?
I thought so, cant put your money where your mouth is.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I am perfectly well aware of the various meanings of the word 'problem'. However context is everything, and the context in which you used it in the origional post implied that it was refering to undesirable events. I suspect that you realized fairly soon that that is how I (and others) interpreted it, but you failed to correct us until much later. What a ...[text shortened]... you have fun facing the problems?
I thought so, cant put your money where your mouth is.

i didn't need to explain because my point would be made even with your limited definition. undesirable events are what have shaped our world and our race. what happened to the roman empire. indulged themselves in luxury and that lead to them being obliterated by all the tribes that came that way.

the "where to stop" argument is not shallow and narrowminded.you can't see past your opinion. if he stops eventually, he would leave people weakened by lack of conflict and people expecting help and not receiving it would cry "not fair". not to mention one of the main arguments atheists have against theists: people governing their lives according to what god may do. if they know that god actually helped people most would stop working out things and pray for miracles. where does that leads to? stagnation and death.

yes, humanity should have stopped the earthquake if they could. what do you think i want? humanity not to help humanity so that humanity can learn from an undesirable event?
we are talking about a supernatural being not helping humanity stop the earthquake so that humanity can eventually stop it. your argument is shallow and narrowminded . I am sure you know it is flawed so why are you using it?

i don't need to give you my money, i earned them. and i face new problems with the satisfaction that i solved the money problem at least for now. one time help isn't harmful. perpetual help is. how about i give you 1 billion, and then another billion and then another. you would have 2.9 billion more than you could ever spend. and at first you won't get bored. fast cars, parties, women. but after you experienced all, what will you do? start over with the same stuff? if your answer is yes, you have a different view on life. but don't tell me i am deluded in saying i would refuse someone to solve all my problems for me

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
the "where to stop" argument is not shallow and narrowminded.

So do you use it for anything other than defending God? Do you ever help anyone? If so, how do you manage to stop? Have you ever been helped? Did they stop helping you? How did they manage?

Originally posted by twhitehead
So do you use it for anything other than defending God? Do you ever help anyone? If so, how do you manage to stop? Have you ever been helped? Did they stop helping you? How did they manage?

this should be called localized logic. you take a general issue, like the problem solving dude who solves every problem and you apply it locally to me helping an old lady across the street. it is amazing how you fly through it all.

i am not god. so i cannot help all people, i may not want to help all people. however god being able to do whatever he wants with absolutely no effort will be required to do so if at one time he starts handing out miracles. the problem isn't that god cannot stop(i never said that). the problem is that God either starts performing miracles for everyone for ever and reduces us to parasites or he will stop at one time and then the people not helped would feel abandoned and wronged. why did X get his miracle and not me? if god only performs miracles for some people occasionally, who decides who gets them? how many will start praying for miracles instead of working for their goals?


i kinda lost my respect for you. i thought you were an independent sentient being, (you being such a freethinker atheist and all). but deep down inside you want for a mommy who would take care of you and solve your problems(or undesirable events if you will). Deep down the mean callous atheist exterior you just need to be loved.

Here is my view of God. The dude that created the universe and subsequently me, that may have made some tweaks there to allow life on earth to happen and the dude that acknowledges my intelligence as a human being and decides i don't need anymore prophets or miracles, that i can now live on my own.

he and jesus and maybe mohammed and buddha (joseph smith not) will meet when i die, at which point maybe i will be disciplined if i made some stupid choices, maybe i will just get a pat on the back saying "your score in the game of life is X. you could have done better".

i will not use cheat codes in the game of life and i will not ask for supernatural help(and i probably won't ask for ordinary help either). this is my view on life, the universe and everything(the short, partial version that concerns religion)

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
however god being able to do whatever he wants with absolutely no effort will be required to do so if at one time he starts handing out miracles.

Thats nonsense and you know it.

the problem isn't that god cannot stop(i never said that). the problem is that God either starts performing miracles for everyone for ever and reduces us to parasites or he will stop at one time and then the people not helped would feel abandoned and wronged.
So all those earthquake victims died in order to spare some toher people from feeling left out? As I said, its a pathetically shallow arguement, and if you can't see it then ....

i kinda lost my respect for you.
I rather doubt that you had any to begin with.

Deep down the mean callous atheist exterior you just need to be loved.
What made you think I had a mean callous exterior? Surely you dont think that all atheist are mean and callous? And again with the 'need' when you have already admited that we do not need what we don't get.

I think your repeated assumption that an atheist is an atheist because he doesn't want God reflects your own reasons for believing in God ie you believe in God not because of any evidence but because it gives you warm fuzzy feelings.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
Here is my view of God.

I hope you realize that almost any other person claiming to be Christian would disown your from their religion.