Originally posted by galveston75
So according to your explination and all this that Jesus did while he was dead, he actually wasn't dead then according to your statement here. Right or wrong?
Was he conscience while going to these places? If he was why didn't he tell anyone anything about going there?
And why doesn't the Bible mention him doing anything while he was there?
So according to your explination and all this that Jesus did while he was dead, he actually wasn't dead then according to your statement here. Right or wrong?
It is obviously wrong to say that Jesus was not dead for three days. If you do not like that the New Testament says that Christ was raised from the DEAD in three days following His crucifixion, that is simply your unbelief in what is written.
Is it my interpretation that Christ was dead ?
"For I delivered to you, first of all, that which also I received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scritures; And that He was buried, and that He has been raised on the third day according to the Scriptures ..." (1 Cor. 15:3,4)
Christ died -
(Rom. 5:8; 2 Cor. 5:14,15) and He was raised from the dead on the third day
( Matt. 28:6-7; Mark 16:6,9; Luke 24:6,7; John 20:9; See also Hosea 6:2; Matt. 12:40; 16:21; Luke 24:21; John 2:19; Acts 10:40)
There is no need to ask me if Christ was dead for three days after His crucifixion.
Now, concerning things DONE by Christ while He was DEAD - I would say first that it seems not to be a cardinal tenet of my faith that I have to believe about things DONE while Christ was dead.
I see the command to believe that God raised Him from the dead as a requirement of salvation -
"That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believve in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved..." (Romans 10:9)
The New Testament says I must believe that Christ was raised from the dead. It does not make a requirement that I believe that Christ DID this or DID that or DID the other while He was dead. So there is no reason for me to FIGHT over that as a vital belief for salvation.
Having said that, and hoping you understand, that we are not called to make things DONE by Christ while He was dead a dividing line separating believers from non-believers, I accept that He DID some things in Hades.
First it should be clear that for Christ to tell the believing thief that on the very day of their death they would be together in
Paradise should mean that neither men was totally non-existent.
Unless you believe that non-existence is Paradise, for three days the DEAD Jesus and the DEAD believing thief were not totally non-existent.
So if
Paradise is a place to which Jesus and the believing thief went upon death, it is not a great leap to assume their immaterial part - the soul and spirit could be doing something.
Indeed, Peter says that Christ did some proclaiming to the spirits in prison. I don't mean imprisoned in Paradise, but imprisoned in some region of Hades.
" ... being put to death in the flesh, but on the other [hand] made alive in the Spirit; in which also He went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison." (1 Pet. 3:18)
Christ did some proclaiming in Hades in His immaterial part of His being - the soul and spirit. Being made alive in Spirit here must mean that He was strengthened in that immaterial part of His being to do other than the typical weakness with which departed souls find themselves.
"But you will be brought down to Sheol, to the uttermost parts of the pit. Those who see you will gaze at you ..." (Isaiah 14:15,16)
These may have been mighty people in
"the land of the living" but they are all characterized in Sheol as being WEAK -
"Sheol beneath is excited becaise of you, that it will meet you when you come. It rouses the dead because of you; All the great ones of the earth ... All of them will respond And say to you,
Even you have been weakened, just as we have; You have become like us. Your majesty has been brought down to Sheol, ... Beneath you maggots are spread; Worms are your covering. " (Isa. 14:9,10)
If WEAKNESS is the characteristic of the departed souls whose bodies are in the graves covered with maggots, then in contrast Christ, when He died, was made ALIVE and stronger in His divine essence. And in that strength His immaterial part PROCLAIMED His victory to the imprisoned spirits - the fallen angels.
Even in His death His soul and spirit were made strong, probably not to preach the gospel to those dead, but to proclaim the victory of God's will to the spirits in prison. He was in a state of having been put to death in the flesh but made alive in the Spirit. Rather than a weak immaterial departed one He was stronger to travel about and proclaim God's victory even to the imprisoned evil spirits.
Jude 6 may be alluding to the same spirits in prison when he writes:
"And angels who did not keep their own principality but abandoned their own dwelling place, He [God] has kept in eternal bonds under gloom for the judgment of the great day." (Jude 6)
Compare Second Peter 2:4:
"For if God did not spare the angels who sinned but delivered them to gloomy pits, having cast them down to Tartarus, they being kept for judgment." (2 Pet. 2:4)
To summarize this post:
1.) Christ went to Paradise. Unless you believe oblivion and non-existence is
Paradise while He was in
"the heart of the earth" and
"the lower parts of the earth" He was not none existent.
2.) His soul and spirit were departed from His body but He was strengthened to do some things, namely proclaiming something of great importance to beings imprisioned there in the realm of the abyss and the lower parts of the earth.
3.) Though it is clear to me that Christ, in His immaterial part was DOING something, I do not consider belief in Christ's DOING while dead or not a requirement for salvation. But that one believes that He died and rose from the dead by God's raising IS essential to the Christian faith.
The New Testament has sparse information about this because it must not be a priority. That is what Christ DID in His departed soul in Hades. Not that much is mentioned about this. I don't intend to make more of a deal about it than should be made.
There is only one other thing I would mention in this post. Some Bible students would take
1 Peter 3:18 to mean AFTER His resurrection Christ
"proclaimed to the spirits in prison".
I don't think that was Peter's meaning. The constrast of
"put to death in the flesh" against
"but ... made alive in the Spirit" I think points to a making alive with a strength to act atypically while His soul was in Hades BEFORE His physical resurrection. For His being made alive in the flesh would be contrasted with put to death in the flesh, if Peter had meant physical death and resurrection.
It could mean that He was put to death physically in the flesh, BUT the process of resurrection was beginning already with power of the divine essence empowering His immaterial part. And this empowering eventually exploded into His whole being including the body wrapped in grave cloths.
In other words resurrection was really a process that began to commence soon after His death and culminated in three days.
Was he conscience while going to these places? If he was why didn't he tell anyone anything about going there?
And why doesn't the Bible mention him doing anything while he was there?
The realm of death is totally open to God. To us it is very veiled and mysterious. Paul was caught away to Paradise. But even Paul didn't say much at all about it.
Speaking for himself Paul says
"I know such a man ... that he was caught away into Paradise and heard unspeakable words, which it is not allowed for a man to speak." (2 Cor. 12:4)
So Christ and the believing thief died and went that same day to
Paradise. Paul, whether materially or immaterially he does not know, was caught away into that same
Paradise. And he says unspeakable things were witnessed and things which were not lawful for us to speak.
So it is for the most part not our business. The little that we are told God deems sufficient for our information.
We are told
something , but not too much. So I don't complain about what Christ didn't say about it. The little bit that He did say is what we need to know. And I have already written about that in part.