1. Joined
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    02 Apr '12 18:171 edit
    im slightly embarrassed to admit this as i should probably know, but my ever inquisitive daughter will probably ask me in the next week or so. what happened to jesus after he came back? how long did he stay for? what did he come back for? how did he go the 2nd time?

    did he pay judas a visit?
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    02 Apr '12 18:341 edit
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    im slightly embarrassed to admit this as i should probably know, but my ever inquisitive daughter will probably ask me in the next week or so. what happened to jesus after he came back? how long did he stay for? what did he come back for? how did he go the 2nd time?

    did he pay judas a visit?
    After Christ was resurrected he appeared first to Magdalene who mistook him for a
    gardener, then he appeared to the disciples in small numbers, two or three, or in large
    numbers, upwards of five hundred. Before his ascension to heaven, i think he remained
    on earth for about a period of forty days. What did he do during this time, he
    strengthened and encouraged the disciples.

    (John 20:16-18) . . .Upon turning around, she said to him, in Hebrew: “Rabboni!”
    (which means “Teacher!&rdquo😉  Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not
    yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I
    am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”  Mary
    Magdalene came and brought the news to the disciples: “I have seen the Lord!” and
    that he said these things to her.

    (John 21:4)  (John 21:12-14) . . .Jesus said to them: “Come, take your breakfast.”
    Not one of the disciples had the courage to inquire of him: “Who are you?” because
    they knew it was the Lord.  Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and
    the fish likewise.  This was now the third time that Jesus appeared to the disciples
    after his being raised up from the dead.

    (John 20:19) . . .Therefore, when it was late on that day, the first of the week, and,
    although the doors were locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus
    came and stood in their midst and said to them: “May you have peace.”

    (John 20:26) . . .Well, eight days later his disciples were again indoors, and Thomas
    with them. Jesus came, although the doors were locked, and he stood in their midst
    and said: “May you have peace.”

    (Luke 24:30-34) . . .And as he was reclining with them at the meal he took the loaf,
    blessed it, broke it and began to hand it to them.  At that their eyes were fully
    opened and they recognized him; and he disappeared from them. And they said to
    each other: “Were not our hearts burning as he was speaking to us on the road, as
    he was fully opening up the Scriptures to us?”  And in that very hour they rose and
    returned to Jerusalem, and they found the eleven and those with them assembled
    together,  saying: “For a fact the Lord was raised up and he appeared to Simon!”
  3. Windsor, Ontario
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    03 Apr '12 02:40
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    yes that is correct, Christ states as much,

    (John 3:13) . . .Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended
    from heaven, the Son of man. . .
    except for elijah and enoch and a myriad of other people.
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    03 Apr '12 03:169 edits
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    Where did Christ go for the three days before he was ressurected? Oblivion? Sheol? Did he just sit in the tomb or maybe go back to heaven?
    Where did Christ go for the three days before he was ressurected? Oblivion? Sheol? Did he just sit in the tomb or maybe go back to heaven?


    I will collect for you the most relevant passages concerning this. But I will probably not get into a long debate with ie. Robbie or someone else.

    1.) Jesus went to "the heart of the earth"

    " For just as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights." (Matt. 12:40)

    2.) Jesus went to "Paradise" :

    "And he said, Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom. And He said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you shall be with Me in Paradise." (Luke 23:42,43)

    3.) Jesus went to Hades as indicated by the Apostle Peter's interpretation the prophetic Psalm 16:8-11:

    "Because You will not abandon My soul to Hades, nor will You permit Your Holy One to see corruption." (Acts 2:27)

    "He, [David] seeing this beforehand, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was He abandoned to Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption" (Acts 2:31)

    4.) Jesus went to "the lower parts of the earth"

    "(Now this, 'He ascended,' what is ot except that He also descended into the lower parts of the earth ? " (Eph. 4:9)

    5.) Jesus went into the realm of death and Hades:

    " ... and He placed His right hand on me, saying, Do not fear; I am the First and the Last and the living One; and I became dead, and behold, I am living forever and ever; and I have the keys of death and of Hades." (Rev. 1:17b-18)

    6.) Jesus went to "the spirits in prison"

    "For Christ also has suffered once for sins, the Righteous on behalf of the unrighteous, that He might bring you to God, on the one hand being put to death in the flesh, but on the other, made alive in the Spirit;

    In which also e went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, who formerly disobeyed when the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah ..." ( 1 Peter 3:18-20a)


    While He was in Hades He went to some region and proclaimed His victory to imprisioned spirits who were particularly evil in the days of Noah. These should be fallen angels who were particularly pernicious and specially confined for their more damaging plots against mankind.

    Christ made proclamation to these fallen angels AFTER HIS DEATH "in the flesh" and BEFORE His resurrection.

    7.) Christ went to "the abyss". This might be a region of the "spirits in prison" where particularly more evil fallen angels were imprisioned:

    "But the righteousness which is out of faith speaks in this way. "Do not say in your heart, Who will ascend into heaven?" that is to bring Christ down; Or, "Who will descend into the abyss?" that is, to bring Christ up from the dead." (Romans 10:7)

    Footnote 10:7 of the RcV says concerning this passage:

    The Greek word is used in Luke 8:31 in reference to the dwelling place of the demons; in Rev. 9:1,2,11 to denote the place out of which the locusts, whose king is Apollyon (Antichrist), will come; in Rev. 117 and 17:8 to signify the place out of which the beast, the Antichrist, will ascend; and in Rev. 20:1,3 to signify the place into which Satan will be cast and impresoned during the millennium. The Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament, uses this word for deep in Gen. 1:2. Here, in this verse, it points to the place Christ visited after His death and before His resurrection, which place, according to Acts 2:24, 27, is Hades; for Acts 2:24, 27 reveals that Christ went into Hades after His death, and rose from that place in His resurrection. Hence, according to biblical usage, the word abyss always refers to the region of death and of Satan's power of darkness, which is the lower parts of the earth (Eph. 4:9), into which Christ descended after His death, which He conquered, and from which He ascended in His resurrection.


    When we put all the verses together, we get a picture of the realm of Hades as having some different compartments. One of these is Paradise and another of these is some special prison for particlarly bad fallen angels and demons.

    Christ apparently went to both these places. "Paradise" to which Christ went on the day He died (Luke 23:43) as a pleasant place of departed believers must also be the place of "Abraham's bosom" where Lazarus the begger went in Luke 16:22.

    This was not Heaven but some region of Hades that is not of torment where the rich man went upon his death -

    "And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham from afar and Lazarus in his bosom." (Luke 16:23)
  5. Standard membergalveston75
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    03 Apr '12 05:161 edit
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Where did Christ go for the three days before he was ressurected? Oblivion? Sheol? Did he just sit in the tomb or maybe go back to heaven?


    I will collect for you the most relevant passages concerning this. But I will probably not get into a long debate with ie. Robbie or someone else.

    1.) Jesus went to [b]"the heart of the earth"[/ m afar and Lazarus in his bosom." (Luke 16:23)
    [/b]
    So according to your explination and all this that Jesus did while he was dead, he actually wasn't dead then according to your statement here. Right or wrong?
    Was he conscience while going to these places? If he was why didn't he tell anyone anything about going there?
    And why doesn't the Bible mention him doing anything while he was there?
  6. Joined
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    03 Apr '12 07:273 edits
    Originally posted by galveston75
    So according to your explination and all this that Jesus did while he was dead, he actually wasn't dead then according to your statement here. Right or wrong?
    Was he conscience while going to these places? If he was why didn't he tell anyone anything about going there?
    And why doesn't the Bible mention him doing anything while he was there?
    So according to your explination and all this that Jesus did while he was dead, he actually wasn't dead then according to your statement here. Right or wrong?


    It is obviously wrong to say that Jesus was not dead for three days. If you do not like that the New Testament says that Christ was raised from the DEAD in three days following His crucifixion, that is simply your unbelief in what is written.

    Is it my interpretation that Christ was dead ?

    "For I delivered to you, first of all, that which also I received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scritures; And that He was buried, and that He has been raised on the third day according to the Scriptures ..." (1 Cor. 15:3,4)

    Christ died - (Rom. 5:8; 2 Cor. 5:14,15) and He was raised from the dead on the third day ( Matt. 28:6-7; Mark 16:6,9; Luke 24:6,7; John 20:9; See also Hosea 6:2; Matt. 12:40; 16:21; Luke 24:21; John 2:19; Acts 10:40)

    There is no need to ask me if Christ was dead for three days after His crucifixion.

    Now, concerning things DONE by Christ while He was DEAD - I would say first that it seems not to be a cardinal tenet of my faith that I have to believe about things DONE while Christ was dead.

    I see the command to believe that God raised Him from the dead as a requirement of salvation -

    "That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believve in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved..." (Romans 10:9)

    The New Testament says I must believe that Christ was raised from the dead. It does not make a requirement that I believe that Christ DID this or DID that or DID the other while He was dead. So there is no reason for me to FIGHT over that as a vital belief for salvation.

    Having said that, and hoping you understand, that we are not called to make things DONE by Christ while He was dead a dividing line separating believers from non-believers, I accept that He DID some things in Hades.

    First it should be clear that for Christ to tell the believing thief that on the very day of their death they would be together in Paradise should mean that neither men was totally non-existent.

    Unless you believe that non-existence is Paradise, for three days the DEAD Jesus and the DEAD believing thief were not totally non-existent.

    So if Paradise is a place to which Jesus and the believing thief went upon death, it is not a great leap to assume their immaterial part - the soul and spirit could be doing something.

    Indeed, Peter says that Christ did some proclaiming to the spirits in prison. I don't mean imprisoned in Paradise, but imprisoned in some region of Hades.

    " ... being put to death in the flesh, but on the other [hand] made alive in the Spirit; in which also He went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison." (1 Pet. 3:18)

    Christ did some proclaiming in Hades in His immaterial part of His being - the soul and spirit. Being made alive in Spirit here must mean that He was strengthened in that immaterial part of His being to do other than the typical weakness with which departed souls find themselves.

    "But you will be brought down to Sheol, to the uttermost parts of the pit. Those who see you will gaze at you ..." (Isaiah 14:15,16)

    These may have been mighty people in "the land of the living" but they are all characterized in Sheol as being WEAK -

    "Sheol beneath is excited becaise of you, that it will meet you when you come. It rouses the dead because of you; All the great ones of the earth ... All of them will respond And say to you,

    Even you have been weakened, just as we have; You have become like us. Your majesty has been brought down to Sheol, ... Beneath you maggots are spread; Worms are your covering. " (Isa. 14:9,10)


    If WEAKNESS is the characteristic of the departed souls whose bodies are in the graves covered with maggots, then in contrast Christ, when He died, was made ALIVE and stronger in His divine essence. And in that strength His immaterial part PROCLAIMED His victory to the imprisoned spirits - the fallen angels.

    Even in His death His soul and spirit were made strong, probably not to preach the gospel to those dead, but to proclaim the victory of God's will to the spirits in prison. He was in a state of having been put to death in the flesh but made alive in the Spirit. Rather than a weak immaterial departed one He was stronger to travel about and proclaim God's victory even to the imprisoned evil spirits.

    Jude 6 may be alluding to the same spirits in prison when he writes:

    "And angels who did not keep their own principality but abandoned their own dwelling place, He [God] has kept in eternal bonds under gloom for the judgment of the great day." (Jude 6)

    Compare Second Peter 2:4:

    "For if God did not spare the angels who sinned but delivered them to gloomy pits, having cast them down to Tartarus, they being kept for judgment." (2 Pet. 2:4)


    To summarize this post:

    1.) Christ went to Paradise. Unless you believe oblivion and non-existence is Paradise while He was in "the heart of the earth" and "the lower parts of the earth" He was not none existent.

    2.) His soul and spirit were departed from His body but He was strengthened to do some things, namely proclaiming something of great importance to beings imprisioned there in the realm of the abyss and the lower parts of the earth.

    3.) Though it is clear to me that Christ, in His immaterial part was DOING something, I do not consider belief in Christ's DOING while dead or not a requirement for salvation. But that one believes that He died and rose from the dead by God's raising IS essential to the Christian faith.

    The New Testament has sparse information about this because it must not be a priority. That is what Christ DID in His departed soul in Hades. Not that much is mentioned about this. I don't intend to make more of a deal about it than should be made.

    There is only one other thing I would mention in this post. Some Bible students would take 1 Peter 3:18 to mean AFTER His resurrection Christ "proclaimed to the spirits in prison".

    I don't think that was Peter's meaning. The constrast of "put to death in the flesh" against "but ... made alive in the Spirit" I think points to a making alive with a strength to act atypically while His soul was in Hades BEFORE His physical resurrection. For His being made alive in the flesh would be contrasted with put to death in the flesh, if Peter had meant physical death and resurrection.

    It could mean that He was put to death physically in the flesh, BUT the process of resurrection was beginning already with power of the divine essence empowering His immaterial part. And this empowering eventually exploded into His whole being including the body wrapped in grave cloths.

    In other words resurrection was really a process that began to commence soon after His death and culminated in three days.


    Was he conscience while going to these places? If he was why didn't he tell anyone anything about going there?
    And why doesn't the Bible mention him doing anything while he was there?


    The realm of death is totally open to God. To us it is very veiled and mysterious. Paul was caught away to Paradise. But even Paul didn't say much at all about it.

    Speaking for himself Paul says "I know such a man ... that he was caught away into Paradise and heard unspeakable words, which it is not allowed for a man to speak." (2 Cor. 12:4)

    So Christ and the believing thief died and went that same day to Paradise. Paul, whether materially or immaterially he does not know, was caught away into that same Paradise. And he says unspeakable things were witnessed and things which were not lawful for us to speak.

    So it is for the most part not our business. The little that we are told God deems sufficient for our information.


    We are told something , but not too much. So I don't complain about what Christ didn't say about it. The little bit that He did say is what we need to know. And I have already written about that in part.
  7. Standard memberRJHinds
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    03 Apr '12 09:231 edit
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    Yes, but I mean where did his soul go?
    The Holy Bible says that He went to preach to the souls held prisoner in hell at
    sometime during the three days. But I believe He first went to the paradise
    area in the third Heaven because He told one of the thieves that was being
    crucified with Him, "Today you shall be with me in paradise."

    P.S. We can only speculate since there is no detailed account of where his
    soul went hour by hour.
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    03 Apr '12 09:522 edits
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    except for elijah and enoch and a myriad of other people.
    FAIL, there is no evidence that they went anywhere, least of all heaven as in the abode
    of God, Christ's very own words refute the assertion, which is based upon tenuous
    interpretations of Biblical events.
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
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    03 Apr '12 16:47
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    FAIL, there is no evidence that they went anywhere, least of all heaven as in the abode
    of God, Christ's very own words refute the assertion, which is based upon tenuous
    interpretations of Biblical events.
    What words did Christ speak about Enoch and Elijah?
  10. Windsor, Ontario
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    03 Apr '12 17:291 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    FAIL, there is no evidence that they went anywhere, least of all heaven as in the abode
    of God, Christ's very own words refute the assertion, which is based upon tenuous
    interpretations of Biblical events.
    there is also no evidence that there ever was a jesus, but it doesn't stop you from believing in it. the fact is that the bible says elijah and enoch went to heaven.

    what is tenuous about the interpretations is attempting to apologize for the contradictions.
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    03 Apr '12 19:211 edit
    As you can see, we have differences of opinion here. In this post I respond to RJHind's post.

    RJHinds says Jesus died and went to Paradise which RJHinds figures must be Heaven or in Heaven.

    My reply would be that the NT says Christ was in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.

    "For just as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. (Matt. 12:40)

    I see no reason to assume He left the heart of the earth during that three days and three nights any more than Jonah LEFT the belly of the fish to go elsewhere during that same amount of time.

    So I don't believe during the three days and three nights Jesus ascended to the third heaven. Paradise must be somewhere where Jesus was for that length of time.

    Some people say that Paul was caught "up" to Paradise. However the NT doesn't say Paul was caught UP to Paradise. It says he was caught AWAY to the third heaven and caught AWAY to Paradise - two different catchings:

    "I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago (whether in the body I do not know, or outside the body I do not know; God knows) such a one was caught away to the third heaven.

    And I know he was caught away into Paradise and heard unspeakable words ..." (2 Cor. 12:2-4)


    The Greek word translated there does not insist that "caught up" is the only possible rendering. Ie., the Recovery Version there is the same word used for the catching away of Phillip the Evangelist in Acts 8:39:

    "And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip AWAY; and the eunuch did not see him anymore ..."

    The word is also used for the catching UP to the clouds of the saints in 1 Thess. 4:17:

    "Then we who are living, who are left remaining, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air ..."

    Logic suggests that "UP" is intended because it is to the clouds and to the air (context).

    I believe that Paul had a thorough view of the universe in the sense that he was taken to the THIRD HEAVEN above and also away to Paradise below. So Paul the Apostle gained a all-incompassing panaramic view of heaven, earth, and under the earth for his extensive apostolic ministry.
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    03 Apr '12 19:271 edit
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    there is also no evidence that there ever was a jesus, but it doesn't stop you from believing in it. the fact is that the bible says elijah and enoch went to heaven.

    what is tenuous about the interpretations is attempting to apologize for the contradictions.
    Another opinion:

    VoidSpirit playing the part of the faithful skeptic contributes:

    the fact is that the bible says elijah and enoch went to heaven.


    I think that if you examine the Bible carefully concerning Enoch and Elijah it is hard to pin down exactly WHERE they went.

    If I am wrong I ask VoidSpirit to show me specifically that Enoch or Elijah definitely were said to be taken to Heaven.

    They were not found. They were taken up. It is not explicit as to where they were taken or caught up.

    Maybe to heaven they went, maybe somewhere else. God may have places that we know little or nothing about now.
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    03 Apr '12 19:442 edits
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The Holy Bible says that He went to preach to the souls held prisoner in hell at
    sometime during the three days. But I believe He first went to the paradise
    area in the third Heaven because He told one of the thieves that was being
    crucified with Him, "Today you shall be with me in paradise."

    P.S. We can only speculate since there is no detailed account of where his
    soul went hour by hour.
    The Holy Bible says that He went to preach to the souls held prisoner in hell at sometime during the three days.



    But the word SOULS is not used. We have "the spirits in prison".

    I would ask the readers to consider a couple of footnotes on 1 Peter 3:19 in the Recovery Version:

    Not to preach the good news but to proclaim the victory achieved by God, that is, that through Christ's death on the cross God destroyed Satan and his power of darkness (Heb. 2:14; Col. 2:15).

    Throughout the centuries great teachers of different schools have had varying interpretations concerning the spirits in prison . The most acceptable according the Scriptures is as follows:

    the spirits here refer not to disembodied spirits of dead human beings held in Hades but to the angels (angels are spirits - Heb. 1:14) who fell through disobedience at Noah's time (v.20 ...) and are imprisoned in pits of gloom, awaiting the judgment of the great day (2 Pet. 2:4-5; Jude 6). After His death in the flesh, Christ in His living Spirit as His divinity went (probably to the abyss - Rom. 10:7 ) to these rebellious angels to proclaim, perhaps, God's victory, accomplished through His incarnation in Christ and Christ's death in the flesh, over Satan's scheme to derange the divine plan.



    This Life Study of Genesis Message 27 tells something about the plot of the evil angels in Noah's day.

    http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?xid=TF04BXJNOA90O

    These words are included in the total message:

    a. The Evil Spirits Mingled with Man—
    the Fallen Angels Joined with Man
    through Illegal Marriage

    In the first fall, Satan seduced man to partake of something other than God. In the second fall, Satan, who was in man's nature, distracted man from God's way of salvation. In the third fall, Satan caused the evil spirits, that is, the fallen angels, to mingle with man and to join with man through illegal marriage. At the time of his fall, before the creation of this present world, Satan captured a large number of angels (see Life-study of Genesis, Message Two). According to Revelation 12:4, it should be that one-third of the angels followed Satan in his rebellion. This is the reason that Ephesians 6:12 speaks of the principalities and powers in the air. The Lord Jesus even told us that Satan has a kingdom (Matt. 12:26). In this universe there is an evil kingdom of the subtle enemy of God, that is, the kingdom of Satan. Satan has a kingdom, meaning that he has under his rule a good number of principalities, dominions, and powers.

    According to the whole revelation of the holy Word, at the time of man's third fall, these fallen angels under Satan's control did something which polluted the human race. They caused the human race to be extraordinarily sinful and to be a mixture. No longer was the human race merely the human race; it became a race that was mixed with the fallen angels. Perhaps this word sounds very strange to you. Very few Christians know that the human race was once polluted by being mixed with fallen angels, the fallen spirits. Nevertheless, there is such a fact recorded in the Bible. At the time of the third fall of man, a number of the fallen angels in Satan's principality came down to the earth, took human bodies, and used these bodies to form illegal marriages with the daughters of men. In this way, the human race was mixed with the fallen spirits.
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    03 Apr '12 20:12
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    there is also no evidence that there ever was a jesus, but it doesn't stop you from believing in it. the fact is that the bible says elijah and enoch went to heaven.

    what is tenuous about the interpretations is attempting to apologize for the contradictions.
    FAIL, there is plenty of evidence that there was a Jesus, both Biblical and secular.
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    03 Apr '12 20:18
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    What words did Christ speak about Enoch and Elijah?
    what are you blithering on about now, Christ stated that no man had ascended to
    heaven, i repeat no one, you can dismiss, ignore or attempt to slither around the verse
    all you like, it will do you no good, or you can try as viod spirit has done to introduce
    tenuous claims based on tenuous interpretations or make the unsubstantiated and
    ludicrous claims that there are contradictions, rather than accept the verse. The only
    merit of your posts in comparisons to jaywills incessant reams of babel is that they are
    concise and to the point.
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