03 Apr 12
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what are you blithering on about now, Christ stated that no man had ascended to
heaven, i repeat no one, you can dismiss, ignore or attempt to slither around the verse
all you like, it will do you no good, or you can try as viod spirit has done to introduce
tenuous claims based on tenuous interpretations or make the unsubstantiated and
ludic ...[text shortened]... in comparisons to jaywills incessant reams of babel is that they are
concise and to the point.
The only merit of your posts in comparisons to jaywills incessant reams of babel is that they are concise and to the point.
" But a soulish man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he is not able to know them because they are discerned spiritually." (1 Cor. 2:14)
Go run now and hide behind your New World Translation's bastardization of this verse.
03 Apr 12
2 edits
Originally posted by jaywillHehe i will, the most accurate English translation of the Bible to date! so lets get this,The only merit of your posts in comparisons to jaywills incessant reams of babel is that they are concise and to the point.
[b] " But a soulish man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he is not able to know them because they are discerned spiritually." (1 Cor. 2:14)
Go run now and hide behind your New World Translation's bastardization of this verse.[/b]
your saying, all these reams of incessant babbling are the result of the spirit of God, I
see, and that in failing to read them through because of an attention deficiency i am
foolish, ok, you said it, it must be true.
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03 Apr 12
Originally posted by jaywillThe recovery Version and possibly others has "soulish" but of course that word has to be looked up, by people new to it.The only merit of your posts in comparisons to jaywills incessant reams of babel is that they are concise and to the point.
[b] " But a soulish man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he is not able to know them because they are discerned spiritually." (1 Cor. 2:14)
Go run now and hide behind your New World Translation's bastardization of this verse.[/b]
Just for discussion: Proposed: the verse is a variation on the No True Scotsman argument. Some here may get that point.
http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/1co/chapter_002.htm
14 But a physical man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know [them], because they are examined spiritually.
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/2-14.htm
New International Version (©1984)
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
New Living Translation (©2007)
But people who aren't spiritual can't receive these truths from God's Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can't understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means.
English Standard Version (©2001)
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
International Standard Version (©2008)
A person who isn't spiritual doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit, for they are nonsense to him. He can't understand them because they are spiritually evaluated.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
For a selfish man does not receive spiritual things, for they are madness to him, and he is not able to know, for they are known by The Spirit.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
A person who isn't spiritual doesn't accept the teachings of God's Spirit. He thinks they're nonsense. He can't understand them because a person must be spiritual to evaluate them.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
American King James Version
But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
American Standard Version
Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.
Douay-Rheims Bible
But the sensual man perceiveth not these things that are of the Spirit of God; for it is foolishness to him, and he cannot understand, because it is spiritually examined.
Darby Bible Translation
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him; and he cannot know them because they are spiritually discerned;
English Revised Version
Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.
Webster's Bible Translation
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Weymouth New Testament
The unspiritual man rejects the things of the Spirit of God, and cannot attain to the knowledge of them, because they are spiritually judged.
World English Bible
Now the natural man doesn't receive the things of God's Spirit, for they are foolishness to him, and he can't know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Young's Literal Translation
and the natural man doth not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for to him they are foolishness, and he is not able to know them, because spiritually they are discerned;
03 Apr 12
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillsoulish man is one of those little ambiguities that the trinitarians just love to bend toThe only merit of your posts in comparisons to jaywills incessant reams of babel is that they are concise and to the point.
[b] " But a soulish man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he is not able to know them because they are discerned spiritually." (1 Cor. 2:14)
Go run now and hide behind your New World Translation's bastardization of this verse.[/b]
their dogma, isn't it. Clearly the verse is contrasting a spiritual person with a physical
or non spiritual person, 'soulish', in fact, like 'natural', makes absolutely no sense and
is a very poor translation. 'Sensual', is simply an inaccuracy.
03 Apr 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThere is nothing ambiguous about it. Speak for yourself.
soulish man is one of those little ambiguities that the trinitarians just love to bend to
their dogma, isn't it. Clearly the verse is contrasting a spiritual person with a physical
or non spiritual person, 'soulish', in fact, like 'natural', makes absolutely no sense and
is a very poor translation. 'Sensual', is simply an inaccuracy.
03 Apr 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBut Christ said this before he was crucified. The following is the way one person
what are you blithering on about now, Christ stated that no man had ascended to
heaven, i repeat no one, you can dismiss, ignore or attempt to slither around the verse
all you like, it will do you no good, or you can try as viod spirit has done to introduce
tenuous claims based on tenuous interpretations or make the unsubstantiated and
ludic ...[text shortened]... in comparisons to jaywills incessant reams of babel is that they are
concise and to the point.
explains Enoch and Elijah being taken by God.
http://www.cgom.org/Publications/Booklets/Enoch_Elijah.htm
But as I pointed out before paradise is definitely in the third Heaven where
God's throne and the tree of life is located. He told the thief, "Today you
shall be with me in paradise." So I believe on wednesday before sunset
and the beginning of the High Sabbath that both the thief and Christ died
bodily and their souls met up in paradise of the third Heaven. Then during
the three days and nights that his body was placed in the tomb his soul went
to Hell or Hades to the disobedient souls/spirits held there.
03 Apr 12
Originally posted by JS357That's a nice website where you collected those. Where is it ?
The recovery Version and possibly others has "soulish" but of course that word has to be looked up, by people new to it.
Just for discussion: Proposed: the verse is a variation on the No True Scotsman argument. Some here may get that point.
http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/1co/chapter_002.htm
14 But a physical man does not receive the things of the s ...[text shortened]... s, and he is not able to know them, because spiritually they are discerned;
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03 Apr 12
Originally posted by jaywillI usually go to it by google on a particular Bible verse and it is in the first few hits as "http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/2-14.htm" and at the top of the screen it has pull down menus for any verse you want, so if you bookmark the above link it will give you full access. Decent commentary too. But had to go to the watchtower site for the JW version on this one at least.
That's a nice website where you collected those. Where is it ?
Here's some commentary on the verse, from the site.
RHP will probably mangle the Greek alphabet (and then some!):
But the natural man - ψυχικὸς, δὲ ἄνθρωπος psuchikos de anthrōpos. The word "natural" here stands opposed evidently to "spiritual." It denotes those who are governed and influenced by the natural instincts; the animal passions and desires, in opposition to those who are influenced by the Spirit of God. It refers to unregenerate people; but it has also not merely the idea of their being unregenerate, but that of their being influenced by the animal passions or desires. See the note on 1 Corinthians 15:44. The word "sensual" would correctly express the idea. The word is used by the Greek writers to denote that which man has in common with the brutes - to denote that they are under the influence of the senses, or the mere animal nature, in opposition to reason and conscience - Bretschneider. See 1 Thessalonians 5:23. Here it denotes that they are under the influence of the senses, or the animal nature, in opposition to being influenced by the Spirit of God. Macknight and Doddridge render it: "the animal man."
Whitby understands by it the man who rejects revelation, the man who is under the influence of carnal wisdom. The word occurs but six times in the New Testament...
unquote
03 Apr 12
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillOkay, but while He was in Hell or Hades do you think He would ignore theThe Holy Bible says that He went to preach to the souls held prisoner in hell at sometime during the three days.
But the word SOULS is not used. We have [b]"the spirits in prison".
I would ask the readers to consider a couple of footnotes on 1 Peter 3:19 in the Recovery Version:
Not to preach the good new rs of men. In this way, the human race was mixed with the fallen spirits.[/b]
souls of humans and not preach to them. Remember Peter not only writes
about the angels but unrighteous human souls being kept under punishment
until the day of Judgment. (2 Peter, chapter 2)
See also, Revelation 2:7 and 6:9-11.
04 Apr 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobie"FAIL" describes the alleged evidence for the existence of jesus, which is to say, non existent.
FAIL, there is plenty of evidence that there was a Jesus, both Biblical and secular.
all the secular sources report on hearsay, nothing more and they come many years too late. the bible doesn't count as evidence for itself and there are absolutely no contemporary sources that mention jesus.
04 Apr 12
Originally posted by jaywilloh really. okay, they were taken up into the void then.
Another opinion:
VoidSpirit playing the part of the faithful skeptic contributes:
the fact is that the bible says elijah and enoch went to heaven.
I think that if you examine the Bible carefully concerning Enoch and Elijah it is hard to pin down exactly WHERE they went.
If I am wrong I ask VoidSpirit to show me specifica ...[text shortened]... n they went, maybe somewhere else. God may have places that we know little or nothing about now.
good job. this is an example of how christians twist old testament scripture to compensate for contradictions introduced by jesus-worship.
04 Apr 12
Originally posted by VoidSpiritReally? I mean, really?
3 days is significant for resurrected solar deities like jesus.
during the solar cycle, the sun appears to go down into the "abyss" (gets lower on the horizon every day). but then it appears to halt its descent for 3 days and then begins to rise again, in a rebirth of the solar cycle.
so for 3 days, like his predecessors savior deities, jesus descended into the abyss/underworld. then he rose again in a new life to repeat the solar cycle.
Solar cycles are much more than three days long. In fact, I have no idea what in the world you could be referencing in this post. You're obviously no astronomer.
04 Apr 12
1 edit
2Ki 2:11 As they were going along and talking, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven.
"heaven" shamayim h8064
1) heaven, heavens, sky
a) visible heavens, sky
1) as abode of the stars
2) as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc
b) Heaven (as the abode of God)
04 Apr 12
Originally posted by Suzianneduring the maximum and minimum of the solar cycle, the sun appears to stop its descent or stop its ascent for 3 days (it doesn't really, it just appears to do so from earth vantage).
Really? I mean, really?
Solar cycles are much more than three days long. In fact, I have no idea what in the world you could be referencing in this post. You're obviously no astronomer.
04 Apr 12
Originally posted by VoidSpiritSoo lets get this, please tell the forum why you have any reason to dispute , Pliny,
oh really. okay, they were taken up into the void then.
good job. this is an example of how christians twist old testament scripture to compensate for contradictions introduced by jesus-worship.
Josephus, Suetonius, Tacitus, Lucian or any other historian for that matter.