Where did your god come from?

Originally posted by googlefudge
I am not sure I did deny you that opportunity.

However I have no problem debating with you.


I have to say that in terms of reading the bible, those that claim it says homosexuality is a
sin have a stronger claim than those saying it doesn't.

Which is one of the many reasons I attack the whole idea of using the bible to decide what
is right ...[text shortened]... accept that that act you currently
consider to be abominable, to now be moral and good.[/quote]

You must be asking about the torture and crucifixion of Jesus.

The Moron

Originally posted by Suzianne
(Pssssst... it's Scrabble™.)

Thanks. Scrabble. Not the breakfast dish Scrapple.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Reasonable doubt is not wishy washy.

If you prove something to a certainty of 99.99995% then it's not reasonable to doubt
that it's true.

However it's still not absolutely 100% certain.

For example physics has a threshold for declaring the discovery of a new particle of 5 sigma,
which means that the chance of being wrong is about 1 in 2 mill ...[text shortened]... reasonable doubt' I am simply acknowledging that you can't prove
anything with 100% certainty.

Even that 'God doesn't exist'. Thanks for agreeing with me. Although I'd make it a lot closer to '50-50', or 50%, than your '99.99995%'.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
Alright, I can live with that interpretation (to a certain extent of course; dirty atheist that I am), it doesn't sound too mindboggling.

What does sound unreasonable to me is that God would disperse a lot of need-to-know information in the bible, yet not where he comes from. He expects us to follow him, certainly it wouldn't be unreasonable of us ...[text shortened]... rp a universe into existence out of boredom? I'd like to know that before giving me life to him.

Well, where God comes from is really not 'needed' to be known, nor is it likely to be 'knowable', so I can see where you might feel safe making the claim that people should know who they're following.

I mean, what if god turns out to be nothing more than a smalltime criminal who was kicked out of the sixth dimension of the multiverse as punishment and decided to burp a universe into existence out of boredom? I'd like to know that before giving me life to him.

You speak of 'following him' or 'giving my life to him', but you're not willing to believe him? We know that God abhors sin and cannot abide it. Sounds good enough for me.

I am perfectly willing to believe in god. I don't disbelieve in god because I want to, or because god is such an unpleasant being. Even when god turns out to be even more evil than he's being described currently, if I have reasons to believe he's real I believe in him. As long as I don't have any reasons to believe in god, I don't believe in god. I would love to believe that our world is inhabited by fairies who can change the hearts and minds of all the bitter, unhappy, lonely and angry people so that we can all be happy, but I just don't believe that.

Willingness has nothing to do with it.

Unless by willingness you mean "Say you believe. Even if you don't actually believe, still say it", because then you are right. I'm not going to say I believe if I don't really believe.

Originally posted by googlefudge
I am not sure I did deny you that opportunity.

However I have no problem debating with you.


I have to say that in terms of reading the bible, those that claim it says homosexuality is a
sin have a stronger claim than those saying it doesn't.

Which is one of the many reasons I attack the whole idea of using the bible to decide what
is right ...[text shortened]... accept that that act you currently
consider to be abominable, to now be moral and good.[/quote]

I have to say that in terms of reading the bible, those that claim it says homosexuality is a
sin have a stronger claim than those saying it doesn't.

Which is one of the many reasons I attack the whole idea of using the bible to decide what
is right or wrong in the first place.

Yes, they do. As to the second half of this, I happen to agree, if only because humans cannot seem to even agree among themselves what selected passages mean, and there are others who come along and put a whole different spin on it. When you are in doubt like this, the best thing to do is to pray for clarity. We are cautioned against being fooled, but some are fooled already and do not know it.

Nice try on the question, btw. But as most here have already tried to say, the question is moot because God wouldn't do that. If I saw and heard such a thing, I'd have to conclude I was having a flashback. Yeah, that kind of flashback, from 'back in the day'. We are to be constantly on guard from being fooled and led into destruction. So my answer to your question, as presented, *must* be 'no, I would not accept that'.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
well ... ?

I flush gods down my toilet every day.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
I am perfectly willing to believe in god. I don't disbelieve in god because I want to, or because god is such an unpleasant being. Even when god turns out to be even more evil than he's being described currently, if I have reasons to believe he's real I believe in him. As long as I don't have any reasons to believe in god, I don't believe in god. I wo ...[text shortened]... l say it", because then you are right. I'm not going to say I believe if I don't really believe.

Good! An honest person. This is sorely needed, on BOTH sides of the issue.

BTW, we don't need fairies for that job. Man can do it, aided by God and angels. Word-of-mouth was good enough for Jesus' time, it's good enough now.

And you know what they say about 'willingness'. If you are willing, your mind and body, or spirit, or whatever, will find a reason to go along. Even more than 'word-of-mouth', IF you are willing, you can easily convince yourself, if your will is strong enough. I don't advocate ANYone doing ANYthing they do not believe is right.

Originally posted by RJHinds
You must be asking about the torture and crucifixion of Jesus.

The Moron

Well, no, he's not. He's asking you (well, all of us, really) to make the decision of what he's talking about, he's not setting any ground rules. To decide that he is, is just fooling yourself. So maybe for YOU, he's 'asking about the torture and crucifixion of Jesus'. I find his question to be hypothetical in the extreme. So hypothetical that it would never occur.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Good! An honest person. This is sorely needed, on BOTH sides of the issue.

BTW, we don't need fairies for that job. Man can do it, aided by God and angels. Word-of-mouth was good enough for Jesus' time, it's good enough now.

And you know what they say about 'willingness'. If you are willing, your mind and body, or spirit, or whatever, will find a ...[text shortened]... our will is strong enough. I don't advocate ANYone doing ANYthing they do not believe is right.

I bet that every single atheist that posts on this website agrees with me on this willingness issue, though.

So they would all be "honest persons".

Originally posted by googlefudge
Being convinced something is true is not evidence or reason to believe that it is true.

People believe all kinds of things that are patently not true.



And how has gods existence been proven to you?

Given that you keep claiming (wrongly) that their can't be evidence of gods existence
otherwise peoples free will would be violated.

Because I have conversed with angels. (Yeah, I know, I know. Laugh it up.)

This has convinced me beyond a shadow of a doubt that God is real. I realize that this proof is for me alone. That is why I do not talk about it. It was only made possible because of my faith. (Well, actually the timeline is a little off, but I still believe that is why this happened. Even though God may 'move in mysterious ways', God still *knows* everyone's heart. He cannot 'be fooled'.)

Originally posted by Great King Rat
I bet that every single atheist that posts on this website agrees with me on this willingness issue, though.

So they would all be "honest persons".

As to their own feelings and/or motivations, yes. But when they go so far as to claim that God does not exist, when they just don't know for sure, the 'honesty' gets a little thin.

Originally posted by RJHinds
You must be asking about the torture and crucifixion of Jesus.

The Moron

Um, no, no I wasn't.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Even that 'God doesn't exist'. Thanks for agreeing with me. Although I'd make it a lot closer to '50-50', or 50%, than your '99.99995%'.

I chose 99.99995% because that's 1 in 2 million or just over 5 sigma certainty.

That's not the probability I assign to your god existing.

That probability is way way way lower.

There is no possible way it's 50-50 on present evidence.

Originally posted by Suzianne

I have to say that in terms of reading the bible, those that claim it says homosexuality is a
sin have a stronger claim than those saying it doesn't.

Which is one of the many reasons I attack the whole idea of using the bible to decide what
is right or wrong in the first place.

Yes, they do. As to the second half of this, I happen to a ...[text shortened]... truction. So my answer to your question, as presented, *must* be 'no, I would not accept that'.

Well I am glad that you would not accept god telling you something evil was good.

However that does mean inescapably that god is not and cannot be the source of [your] morality.