Which religion is worse for killing, Christianity or Islam

Originally posted by jaywill
Your view of what it means to Christians that the Bible is [b]"inspired" seems to be that there should be NOTHING written in the Old Testament that you do not agree with.[/b]

Well I disagree with genocide and slavery, jaywill, it's true. You have laid out your defence of genocide and slavery as portrayed in the bible very clearly. You have not convinced me but I appreciate the time you have taken to try.

Originally posted by jaywill
Do you really have to go back to [b]Joshua to grasp reasons to not confess you are a sinner in need of Christ's redemption and forgiveness ??[/b]

Oh you seem to misunderstand. I am not a Christian, jaywill. Not anymore. So your assertions and assumptions about my "need" for "redemption and forgiveness" are off target.

Originally posted by FMF
Well I disagree with genocide and slavery, jaywill, it's true. You have laid out your defence of genocide and slavery as portrayed in the bible very clearly. You have not convinced me but I appreciate the time you have taken to try.

Well, I am an evangelist first and a Christian apologist only secondly.
And I usually do not recommend new believers or seekers start their bible reading with Leviticus or even Joshua. I would probably recommend the seeker start reading the Gospel of Luke or perhaps John .

I came to the Old Testament because the integrity of Jesus so impressed me. I decided that since He often refered to it than it must be important.

If you really want to find God in the Bible, I think you learn to put some more difficult issues on the "back burner".

What do you think of the way God dealt with the first murderer Cain ? Do you think God was too harsh or rather merciful ?

There are 150 Psalms in the Bible. Do you see no expressions of longsuffering, mercy, patience, forgiveness in ANY of those 150 Psalms ?

Originally posted by FMF
Well I disagree with genocide and slavery, jaywill, it's true. You have laid out your defence of genocide and slavery as portrayed in the bible very clearly. You have not convinced me but I appreciate the time you have taken to try.

In what way do you think jaywill was even trying to convince you that
genocide and slavery are something to condone? I don't think even
Dasa was trying to do that when he wished the Muslims would get
what they deserved.

Originally posted by jaywill
There are 150 Psalms in the Bible. Do you see no expressions of longsuffering, mercy, patience, forgiveness in ANY of those 150 Psalms ?

The topic is "slavery", jaywill.

Originally posted by RJHinds
In what way do you think jaywill was even trying to convince you that
[...] slavery [is] something to condone?

Page 7 of this thread:

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)


FMF: Was this an abomination, jaywill?

jaywill: No FMF, I do not consider this law "abominable" all things in context considered.

However, I understand why he feels he has to defend slavery.

Originally posted by FMF
Oh you seem to misunderstand. I am not a Christian, jaywill. Not anymore. So your assertions and assumptions about my "need" for "redemption and forgiveness" are off target.

Oh you seem to misunderstand. I am not a Christian, jaywill. Not anymore. So your assertions and assumptions about my "need" for "redemption and forgiveness" are off target.

I understand that you come to the Spirituality forum and debate Christians like me because you wish to reinforce your skeptical position.

Like some people go to Seminary to try to find God. Others go there to try to get rid of God.

And some people come to the Spirituality Forum to find God.
And some people come to it to assure themselves that they have gotten rid of Him.

I understand. You're a "Been There and Done That" kind of guy.

Let's have a chess game ? I decided I need to play chess with some of you guys.

Originally posted by RJHinds
In what way do you think jaywill was even trying to convince you that
genocide [....is] something to condone?

Take a look at jaywill's recent defence of the genocide against the Midianites based purely on the literature of the people who perpetrated the genocide.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I don't think even Dasa was trying to [condone genocide] when he wished the Muslims would get what they deserved.

Dasa advocated genocide in his thread "Peace" on 19 December. ""There can be no peace in this world until false religion is eradicated and true religion established. [...] "To do this ..........force must be used and termination of all Muslims would be the rule. Muslims converting to other religions at the eleventh hour would not be accepted."

Originally posted by jaywill
I understand that you come to the Spirituality forum and debate Christians like me because you wish to reinforce your skeptical position.

Your vanity aside, I come here because I am a spiritual person and a theist. 🙂

Originally posted by FMF
Page 7 of this thread:

[b]"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves lik hings in context considered.

However, I understand why he feels he has to defend slavery.

However, I understand why he feels he has to defend slavery.

[/b]
Umm. When I was in FIFTH grade an assignment from the teacher was that we should list out family tree back as far as we could.

I learned that as an African American embarressingly enough, I could not go back too far because all my ancestors were probably American SLAVES. That was a painful experience for a young fifth grade black boy to go through in a mostly white school.

Right! I am really eager to defend slavery - NOT.

No, I am not interested in defending slavery. I am interested in a intellectually honest approach to the word which has a modern connotation of extreme negativity.

Just the mention of "slave" and some people cannot appreciate that there are different types of servitude.

I have no problem with recognizing that strong Abolitionist activism came from Methodist, Quaker, and Mennonite Christian sects. They used the Bible to fight against slavery. And I happen to agree with their exegesis.

Now we come to the matter of slavery mentioned in the Old Testament. Let's look at it in detail and not in a knee jerk emotional reaction simply to exploit the modern negative connotation of the word.

That is all.

Originally posted by jaywill

However, I understand why he feels he has to defend slavery.

Umm. When I was in FIFTH grade an assignment from the teacher was that we should list out family tree back as far as we could.

I learned that as an African American embarressingly enough, I could not go back too far because all my ancestors were probably American SLAVES.
...[text shortened]... nal reaction simply to exploit the modern negative connotation of the word.

That is all.

I understand why you feel you have to defend slavery. I understand why you declare your defence of it to be "intellectually honest". I understanding why you are now resorting to an ad hominem - with this latest claim about my "knee jerk emotional reaction" [how many of your sequences of posts end up throwing this kind of stuff around?] - even though I have not used any ad hominems and have been measured and polite all along. I understand why this happens to you.

Originally posted by FMF
I understand why you feel you have to defend slavery. I understand why you declare your defence of it to be "intellectually honest". I understanding why you are now resorting to an ad hominem - with this latest claim about my "knee jerk emotional reaction" [how many of your sequences of posts end up throwing this kind of stuff around?] - even though I have not u ...[text shortened]... hominems and have been measured and polite all along. I understand why this happens to you.

Please quote me on the "ad hom" ?

Against you ? What was the ad hom ?

Originally posted by jaywill
Please quote me on the "ad hom" ?

I have been measured and polite with you all along and not exhibited "a knee jerk emotional reaction" of any kind.

C'mon FMF.

Quote my ad hom against you. (yes you do put forth a effort at decorum and respect). Maybe I will have to retract. Where is it ?

I know "Speed Kills" but this is ridiculous. You should be able to bring it right up.