Originally posted by RJHinds
Where is your reference ?

the bible. you should try reading it sometime.

oh heck, what am i doing, asking you to read something? i should know better. here is one reference.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Originally posted by RJHinds
I said I was not there to keep score and neither was you. I was only giving
a general principle.

What general principle are you talking about?

Muslims killing innocents counts against Islam in terms of the thread's OP question. Clearly.

Now. Do you accept that the Muslim victims of the Christian Crusades count against Christianity in terms of the thread's OP question?

It's a point blank question, RJHinds.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Was this an abomination, jaywill?

Originally posted by VoidSpirit

Num 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

moses liked his slaves, especially if they were young virgin girls. boo-yah!

When you tell one lie your style seems to be, when asked to back it up, to tell a bigger one.

You remind me of Joe Mcarthy and the Big Lie.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Where does it say they were kept alive as slaves?

sigh. it requires some reading. try deuteronomy. it's scary i know. check around chapter 20.

Originally posted by FMF
Was this an abomination, jaywill?

It is late now.

But I'll repeat what I wrote before. God made some accomadations for practices of warfare among the surrounding nations.

I will consider your case and probably demonstrate that here also, some movement towards moral improvement was reflected in the Law of Moses.

Probably tomorrow. By the way. Answer my questions TOO, how about it?

Originally posted by jaywill
When you tell one lie your style seems to be, when asked to back it up, to tell a bigger one.

You remind me of Joe Mcarthy and the Big Lie.

i quoted you exact words uttered by moses as recorded in the bible. call me a liar and you call the bible a lie. which is true of course, i'm only repeating the lies written in the bible.

Originally posted by FMF
Do you think slavery is an abomination - "realistically" and "intellectually" - yes or no?

it's astonishing. not a single "christian" here has spoken out against slavery. they must defend slavery because it's in their bible and commanded by their god.

Originally posted by jaywill

Let's just stick to "slavery". This is the issue I have raised with you. Do you think slavery is an abomination?

I would rather be specific and appreciate the nuances of the problem.

I would rather be [b]realistic and acknowledge that as much as my modern humanistic revulsion is at the very word "SLAVERY" I would rather b ...[text shortened]... knee jerk prejudice of accusing God of condoning slavery in its more evil manifestations.[/b]

Actually, the truth of the situation is we brought it on ourselves since your god was just another invention of people of the time to control their tribes so of course your god gets anthropomorphic attributes because the common folk would not be able to understand abstract thought

The time has come to chuck such anthropomorphic gods and allow the human race to grow up finally.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
the bible. you should try reading it sometime.

oh heck, what am i doing, asking you to read something? i should know better. here is one reference.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born ...[text shortened]... ple of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Thanks. I had been under the impression that all slaves must be set free
in the year of Jubilee. This reference seems to say that slaves purchased
from foreigners may be kept permanently. I did not remember reading
this. So it appears from this reference that it is perfectly okay to keep
certains slaves permanently. This must be how the people in the
southern states of American interpreted slave ownership. Interesting.

P.S. It appears that the slave would have to run away if he wanted to be
free.
Deuteronomy 23:15-16 - "You shall not deliver to his master the slave who
has escaped from his master to you:

He shall dwell with you, [even] in your midst, in the place which he chooses
among your towns, wherever he pleases; you shall not oppress him."

Originally posted by sonhouse
The only thing I worry about as far as Islam goes, is the idea they would push for a totally religious state, enforcing those barbaric Sharia laws, women can't work, can't drive, get stoned if they are even accused of adultery, guilty until proven innocent.

Kind of like what happened in the Salem Witch trials.

If the fundamentalists gets in power, then try to turn every other in the country into their fundamentalism, no matter what religion.

Aren't the fundamentalistic creationists in USA trying to make creationism to be taught in all schools? And throw out science that disproves creationism? That evolution would be forbidden to teach the young ones? Arn't the fundamentalists trying to fobid abortions, with the means of bombings? Let's think what happened in Rwanda by the christians there?

And so on. Religion isn't dangerous. Fundamentalism is. Of every religion.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
If the fundamentalists gets in power, then try to turn every other in the country into their fundamentalism, no matter what religion.

Aren't the fundamentalistic creationists in USA trying to make creationism to be taught in all schools? And throw out science that disproves creationism? That evolution would be forbidden to teach the young ones? Arn't t ...[text shortened]... istians there?

And so on. Religion isn't dangerous. Fundamentalism is. Of every religion.

Do you approve of killing the preborn baby in the mothers womb?
What if that baby had been you?

The following is from the wiki article on the Rawandan Genocide:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide
It does not appear that Christians were at fault to me.

The Roman Catholic Church affirms that genocide took place but argues that those who took part in it did so without the permission of the Church.[29] The Marian apparition, known as Our Lady of Kibeho, was seen in 1982. The Virgin Mary was said to have shown three visionaries a future blood bath and called for prayer and repentance. In 2001 the diocese approved the vision as "worthy of belief", indicating the Catholic Church's attitude regarding the Massacres. Reports indicate the percentage of Muslims in Rwanda has doubled since the genocide due to Muslim sheltering and protection of Tutsis and Hutus during the genocide.[30]

Though religious factors were not prominent (the event was ethnically motivated), in its 1999 report Human Rights Watch faulted a number of religious authorities in Rwanda, including Roman Catholic, Anglican, and other Protestants for failing to condemn the genocide directly - though that accusation was belied over time.[31] Some in its religious hierarchy have been brought to trial for their participation by the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda and convicted.[29] Bishop Misago was accused of corruption and complicity in the genocide, but he was cleared of all charges in 2000.[32] Others Catholic and Protestant clergy, however, gave their lives to protect Tutsis from slaughter.[31] The majority of Rwandans, and Tutsis in particular, are Catholic, so shared religion did not prevent genocide.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Thanks. I had been under the impression that all slaves must be set free
in the year of Jubilee. This reference seems to say that slaves purchased
from foreigners may be kept permanently. I did not remember reading
this. So it appears from this reference that it is perfectly okay to keep
certains slaves permanently. This must be how the people in th ...[text shortened]... the place which he chooses
among your towns, wherever he pleases; you shall not oppress him."

deut 23 refers to foreigners who have escaped their masters. it's actually commendable of the ancient israelites to provide amnesty for refugees.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Do you approve of killing the preborn baby in the mothers womb?
What if that baby had been you?

The following is from the wiki article on the Rawandan Genocide:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide
It does not appear that Christians were at fault to me.

The Roman Catholic Church affirms that genocide took place but argues that those who to ...[text shortened]... wandans, and Tutsis in particular, are Catholic, so shared religion did not prevent genocide.

What I think about abortions is totally off-topic. What is on-topic is that fundamental christians use bombs, killings, and terror as a way to make others to believe as the fundamentalists do. That isn't democratic. Democracy is to let the majority decide.

Do you think that christan terror is okay? I don't.

About the wikipedia article about the Rwanda genocide - it is sugared. If you google it bit further you will find the connection between the christian church and the genocide. I don't go further into this, as it also will be off-topic. This is just an example of christian terrorism.

Another example christian terrorism is the treatment of homosexuals in Africa. There is is a death penalty for just being an homosexual. And this is approved by the church. Totally contrary to the words of Jesus.

I emphacize that this is not proper christian behaviour. Normal christians object to terror in the name of Christ. Fundamentalist christians think that terror is a price to save people.

I am totally against violence in any circumstances. You have the right to express your thoughts, but not with violence. If you are a target of terrorism, for me it doesn't matter if you have the same opinion, religion, or political views as me, or if you don't, then I will defend you, protect you with any means of my disposal. (If you don't believe me, read my postings about the terror betseen Israel and Palestine.) If someone harasses you for your anti-abortal views, I will protect you.

Those fundamentalists, who call themselves christians, using terror in the name of Christ, are wrong, dead wrong.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
sigh, as i hold that atheism is a religious stance your point is well, rather pointless!

Then you also believe that OFF is a tv channel?
That Not stamp collecting is a Hobby?