Who and Why?

Originally posted by Nordlys
Minding your manners is a prerequisite - the serpent didn't convince Eve by being rude. But I am sorry, being a human disqualifies you. And I am not sure about the evil part either. I don't think it's evil to persuade people to acquire knowledge.

IIRC, the word used for 'serpent' in Genesis is the same word used elsewhere for 'leviathan' (Revelation?).

Which puts the whole temptation account in a new light...

Originally posted by aspviper666
I have always been a charmer and a gentleman.
The evil thing, you know.

Face it—you’re just too nice an asp, asp. Nobody believes that you’re...

Wait a minnit! Damn! That must mean... He is!

Originally posted by lucifershammer
IIRC, the word used for 'serpent' in Genesis is the same word used elsewhere for 'leviathan' (Revelation?).

Which puts the whole temptation account in a new light...

How so?

Originally posted by Nordlys
I don't think it's evil to persuade people to acquire knowledge.

It is when it leads to porn.

Originally posted by Nordlys
How so?

Leviathan:

wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

- the largest or most massive thing of its kind; "it was a leviathan among redwoods"; "they were assigned the leviathan of textbooks"
- monstrous sea creature symbolizing evil in the Old Testament

Essentially, if one thinks of the "serpent" in Genesis as actually being a huge, monstrous creature capable of devouring Eve, then the whole tenor of the conversation changes.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Leviathan:

wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

- the largest or most massive thing of its kind; "it was a leviathan among redwoods"; "they were assigned the leviathan of textbooks"
- monstrous sea creature symbolizing evil in the Old Testament

Essentially, if one thinks of the "serpent" in Genesis as actually being a huge, monstrous creature capable of devouring Eve, then the whole tenor of the conversation changes.

But what if the leviathan in Revelations is actually just a puny snake?

Originally posted by dottewell
But what if the leviathan in Revelations is actually just a puny snake?

Revelation.

Also, on a clear night, look above your head, observe the serpent stretching toward the crown in the night sky.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Leviathan:

wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

- the largest or most massive thing of its kind; "it was a leviathan among redwoods"; "they were assigned the leviathan of textbooks"
- monstrous sea creature symbolizing evil in the Old Testament

Essentially, if one thinks of the "serpent" in Genesis as actually being a huge, monstrous creature capable of devouring Eve, then the whole tenor of the conversation changes.

I think you'll find Leviathan in Job too.

Chapter 40 or 41, I can't remember and am to lazy to look it up.

Originally posted by dottewell
But what if the leviathan in Revelations is actually just a puny snake?

I don't know if "puny snake" is a legitimate translation of the term.

Originally posted by kirksey957
I thought it might be a fun little exercise to list some biblical characters and see who they might correspnd to on RHP. Please tell why the person matches the character.

The serpent, Cain, Abel, John the Baptist, Jeremiah, Mary Magdeline, Apostle Paul, Bathsheba, The Saducees, The Gerasene Demoniac, David (at any paticular time in his life), On ...[text shortened]... digal son, the rich young ruler, the three wise men, Jonah. or whoever else you may want to add.

I'll go "the Apple"


Bite me.


HHH🙂

Originally posted by Halitose
I think you'll find Leviathan in Job too.

Chapter 40 or 41, I can't remember and am to lazy to look it up.

The Hebrew word livayatan appears in the following verses (searched according to NRSV):

Job 3:8, Job 41:1, Ps. 74:14, Ps. 104:26, Isa. 27:1.

The root is lamed-vav-hey (l-v-h), and it is related to the Hebrew word for wreath.

Isaiah describes leviathan as a serpent, nachash:

Isaiah 27:1 On that day YHVH with his cruel and great and strong sword will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan the twisting serpent, and he will kill the dragon that is in the sea.

This is the only passage in which “Leviathan” and “serpent” occurred within 5 verses of each other (I didn’t search broader than that). According to one commentary, in this passage, leviathan may be a symbol for Egypt—on the other hand, it could also symbolize evil in general, and the evil also represented by the serpent in the garden in particular. (It may have also been used, non-symbolically, to refer to a crocodile, as well as some large sea-creature.)

Nachash is the most common Hebrew word for serpent or snake, including the one that tempted Eve and the bronze serpent of Moses.

EDIT: One can certainly imagine, I think, a rabbi saying: "And why did Eve listen? This was no ordinary nachash--this was the nachash that is called in Isaiah livayatan!"

Originally posted by Halitose
I think you'll find Leviathan in Job too.

Chapter 40 or 41, I can't remember and am to lazy to look it up.

Book of Job 3:8 "Lo let the night be solitary, let no joyful cry be heard in it. Let them curse it who curse the day who are ready to awake the Leviathan";

Book of Job 41:1-34: "Can you draw out a Leviathan with a hook or press down its tongue with a cord? Canst thou put a hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a bridle ring? Will he make many supplications to thee? Will he speak soft words to thee? Will he make a covenant with thee? To take him for thy servant forever? Will thou play with him as with a bird? Or wilt thou bind him for thy girls? Will the tradesmen heap up payment for him?... Lay thy hand upon him, thou will no more think of fighting. Behold the hope of him is in vain, shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him? None is so fierce that dare stir him up. who then is able to stand before me?...Who can open the doors of his face? His teeth are terrible round about. His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal. One is near to the another, that no air can come between them. They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered. By his [sneezing] a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of morning. Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out. Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron. His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth....His heart is as firms as stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone....He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood. The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble....He maketh the deep to boil like a pot....he is a king over all the children of pride."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan

Originally posted by vistesd
The Hebrew word livayatan appears in the following verses (searched according to NRSV):

Job 3:8, Job 41:1, Ps. 74:14, Ps. 104:26, Isa. 27:1.

The root is lamed-vav-hey (l-v-h), and it is related to the Hebrew word for wreath.

Isaiah describes leviathan as a serpent, nachash:

Isaiah 27:1 On that day YHVH with his cruel and great and ...[text shortened]... w word for serpent or snake, including the one that tempted Eve and the bronze serpent of Moses.

Would I be within the bounds of traditional midrash (is that the right word?) if I interpreted the nachash of Genesis as leviathan or some kind of monstrous being?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Essentially, if one thinks of the "serpent" in Genesis as actually being a huge, monstrous creature capable of devouring Eve, then the whole tenor of the conversation changes.

Again, how so? I can't find anything in the conversation which sounds like the serpent / leviathan is threatening Eve.

Originally posted by vistesd
Now, I’m going to return the favor and nominate David C for the Solomon of the Song of Songs, based on this quote that he provided in another thread—

"The Lovers are the embodiment of the harmony of opposites. This is how we are before the fear and prejudices of life intervene. We give our love freely to others and we need no other to make us whole ...[text shortened]... ________

And lucifershammer has got to be Peter, Peter after Pentecost, the rock of Rome...

That's perfect for me as I have a limp.