So the Pope has died. Any human passing away in death is sad. But exactly who is the Pope?
On face value he seems to be an important being to millions here on earth.
Is he God in the flesh?
Is he another Christ in the flesh? If so why is he accepted and looked up to by millions, even billions? The facts are is when Jesus was on earth he had to basically hide at times to not be captured but in reality was eventually caught and eventually killed with the backing of his own people?
Is the Pope more important then Jesus? It seems he is because the Pope has the seeming authority to forgive one of their sins?
Did Jesus have that authority? Who did Jesus tell everyone to pray to for forgiveness?
It was to his Father Jehovah. Not to any sinful human religious leader like lets say the Pope or any of his sinful imperfect church fathers....
@galveston75 saidThe order of priority was established long ago, as follows:
So the Pope has died. Any human passing away in death is sad. But exactly who is the Pope?
On face value he seems to be an important being to millions here on earth.
Is he God in the flesh?
Is he another Christ in the flesh? If so why is he accepted and looked up to by millions, even billions? The facts are is when Jesus was on earth he had to basically hide at ti ...[text shortened]... nful human religious leader like lets say the Pope or any of his sinful imperfect church fathers....
1. What the Apostles taught.
2. What Ecumenical Councils decide.
3. What Scripture says.
Ecumenical Councils consist of conferences of bishops, either Orthodox or Catholic, who can trace their lineage back to one of the Apostles. The Pope is simply one of the bishops, "first among equals", in the Catholic lineage. Their counterparts are called "patriarchs" in the Orthodox tradition (yup, they are without exception cis-males). This is the Church's own 'official' history, not merely my opinion. The basic idea, as loony as it sounds, is that God (the Holy Ghost) will not let Ecumenical Councils be deluded.
The reason why Ecumenical Councils are above Scripture is that God's Will for man is a continuing revelation, whereas Scripture was frozen in time (at the Ecumenical Council of Nicea in AD 325) and may not be altered.
Protestants, of course, do not accept this hierarchy and put their own personal interpretations (and sometimes translations) of Scripture above that of bishops.
@moonbus saidThat order of priority was established by the Catholic Church, and it is contrary to the bible. Also there is no indication in the bible that God's will for man is a continuing revelation... again a fabrication of the RCC.
The order of priority was established long ago, as follows:
1. What the Apostles taught.
2. What Ecumenical Councils decide.
3. What Scripture says.
Ecumenical Councils consist of conferences of bishops, either Orthodox or Catholic, who can trace their lineage back to one of the Apostles. The Pope is simply one of the bishops, "first among equals", in the Catholi ...[text shortened]... their own personal interpretations (and sometimes translations) of Scripture above that of bishops.
What is Scripture, is another failing of the RCC. They removed books, added their own interpretaton into certain passages. Scripture of Christ and the Apostles was the Greek Septuagint which is not identical to the Old Testament of the KJV.
Personally I wont put my trust in any religion right now on Earth, neither is there any need for someone to do that. All trust and faith is in God and in the promise made by Christ about who gets into eternal life and who is cast out. It is a simple matter, complicated by all these churches.
@galveston75 saidHave you read these words of Jesus :
So the Pope has died. Any human passing away in death is sad. But exactly who is the Pope?
On face value he seems to be an important being to millions here on earth.
Is he God in the flesh?
Is he another Christ in the flesh? If so why is he accepted and looked up to by millions, even billions? The facts are is when Jesus was on earth he had to basically hide at ti ...[text shortened]... nful human religious leader like lets say the Pope or any of his sinful imperfect church fathers....
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (Mat 16:18-19 KJV)
These words are repeated several times by Christ on different occasions. Seems to me he was giving the Apostles the Holy Spirit and along with it, the power to forgive sins. The RCC believe Peter to be the first pope and head of the only true church.
Personally I dont care what the Catholic Church does or believes, but what is interesting is that you a Jehovah Witness, appear to be condemning the pope and the RCC for abusing their authority when your church leaders have done worse things eg the Watchtower refer to themselves as the Mother [if God is the Father], who is Gods mouthpiece on Earth. By what authority do you do that. Bear in mind your church has a long list of failed predictions and false prophecies, along with false doctrines [eg who are the 144,000], and many others we have established here.
1 edit
@Rajk999 saidThose who try to put Scripture ahead of Ecumenical Councils run aground on the fact that Ecumenical Councils determined what was canonized and what was declared apocryphal. In short, anyone who doubts or discredits the RCC, cannot fall back on Scripture, because the RCC determined what went into Scripture. So, yes, there is a crucial gap in the tradition of 300 years, between what Jesus taught to his Apostles and when the canon was established. There is strong evidence that early Christianity was very much more diverse and complex than the RCC was comfortable with, and that the RCC actively suppressed variants, for example the Thomas Christians of India (who, so they claim, trace their lineage back to one of The Twelve).
That order of priority was established by the Catholic Church, and it is contrary to the bible. Also there is no indication in the bible that God's will for man is a continuing revelation... again a fabrication of the RCC.
What is Scripture, is another failing of the RCC. They removed books, added their own interpretaton into certain passages. Scripture of Christ and th ...[text shortened]... ts into eternal life and who is cast out. It is a simple matter, complicated by all these churches.
Even today, there are Christian sects which accept the Book of Enoch as genuine, while others do not.
Nowadays, any hillbilly in Kentucky can post his own translation/interpretation of the Bible on the Internet and collect thousands of 'likes', no seminary education in theology, dead languages, or exegesis required. I can certainly understand your skepticism; Evangelicals in America don't worship God, they worship religion, and then only at intervals.
1 edit
@moonbus saidIt is not possible for the EC to have changed the original bible, the Septuagint, eventually the Bible KJV to such an extent that the doctrine of Christ is perverted. Thats impossible. Much of the bible is history, prophecies and although these excluded books are interesting and aids in understanding what transpired in those days, they are not critical reading for correct teachings of what is required for eternal life.
Those who try to put Scripture ahead of Ecumenical Councils run aground on the fact that Ecumenical Councils determined what was canonized and what was declared apocryphal. In short, anyone who doubts or discredits the RCC, cannot fall back on Scripture, because the RCC determined what went into Scripture. So, yes, there is a crucial gap in the tradition of 300 years, between ...[text shortened]... Evangelicals in America don't worship God, they worship religion, and then only at intervals.
As for RCC, they failed in this one core doctrine about the nature of Christ and which is related to Jesus's words with Peter. The very same passage is used to prove that Peter is the first head of the Church. I pposted it before for Galveston:
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (Mat 16:15-19 KJV)
Peter, the very first Catholic Pope [according to the RCC], said that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Jesus replied that God himself revealed that truth to Peter, so Peter would not have come after and claim that Jesus is God or is equal to God or one and the same as God, neither should the EC. Right there they are contrary to Peter who is a greater authority.
The Catholic Church is just another church, and any changes they made to the bible are not critical ones that damage the true understanding of the teachings of Christ.
2 edits
@Rajk999 saidWell, obviously, the Roman Catholic Church would like that particular passage to be canonized, because it prioritizes the Roman church.The Orthodox Church does not accept that interpretation. The orthodox church maintained that there is no see which is primary.
It is not possible for the EC to have changed the original bible, the Septuagint, eventually the Bible KJV to such an extent that the doctrine of Christ is perverted. Thats impossible. Much of the bible is history, prophecies and although these excluded books are interesting and aids in understanding what transpired in those days, they are not critical reading for correct t ...[text shortened]... de to the bible are not critical ones that damage the true understanding of the teachings of Christ.
Catholic and Orthodox Bishops still divide over the question of the filioque, and this is not a trivial issue regarding the nature of Christ.
@Rajk999 saidwhat is interesting is that you a Jehovah Witness, appear to be condemning the pope and the RCC for abusing their authority when your church leaders have done worse things eg the Watchtower refer to themselves as the Mother [if God is the Father], who is Gods mouthpiece on Earth. By what authority do you do that. Bear in mind your church has a long list of failed predictions and false prophecies, along with false doctrines [eg who are the 144,000], and many others we have established here."
Have you read these words of Jesus :
[i]And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven ...[text shortened]... cies, along with false doctrines [eg who are the 144,000], and many others we have established here.
Well stated.
@KingDavid403
Thanks for your comments. But let me point out that the scriptures do answer this subject of the progression of "searching of truth" that Jesus said would happen sometime in the future with ones who listen to his words and who would finally get the clear understanding about that future and of how to recognize "WHO" is truly following his words.
But the thread here is about the Catholic religion and about many traditions they've adopted that are not scriptural and in fact have many that come from pagan teachings. This is exactly what Jesus foretold would happen. I'm sure many of the leaders of the Catholic religion know what they teach is false...but they love the praise and position it gives them. Jesus as well as his apostles and followers never allowed this to happen.
The Pope is just a man who has no right to "forgive anyone of their sins" and nothing more and never deserves any worship that only goes to Jehovah. The bible describes these who die are "buried in "White washed graves, but are really just full of dead mans bones".
7 edits
@galveston75 saidwith ones who listen to his words and who would finally get the clear understanding about that future and of how to recognize "WHO" is truly following his words.
@KingDavid403
Thanks for your comments. But let me point out that the scriptures do answer this subject of the progression of "searching of truth" that Jesus said would happen sometime in the future with ones who listen to his words and who would finally get the clear understanding about that future and of how to recognize "WHO" is truly following his words.
But the ...[text shortened]... bes these who die are "buried in "White washed graves, but are really just full of dead mans bones".
"You will know them by their fruits"; Jesus said.
But the thread here is about the Catholic religion and about many traditions they've adopted that are not scriptural and in fact have many that come from pagan teachings. This is exactly what Jesus foretold would happen. I'm sure many of the leaders of the Catholic religion know what they teach is false...but they love the praise and position it gives them. Jesus as well as his apostles and followers never allowed this to happen.
The Pope is just a man who has no right to "forgive anyone of their sins" and nothing more and never deserves any worship that only goes to Jehovah. The bible describes these who die are "buried in "White washed graves, but are really just full of dead mans bones".
"Let the perfect Christian church without sin cast the first stone"; Jesus said; [paraphrased].
I believe this:
[Acts 2:21 NKJV] 21 [b]"And it shall come to pass [That] whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved."
I do agree with you that the Catholic church does some things wrong; in my opinion. However, I feel the same about your church also. Every church actually.
BTW, those were Rajk999 comments; and I responded to his comments with a "well stated."
@KingDavid403
Hi and yes you would know them by their fruits. If a tree produces good fruit then then you are probably looking at a good thing to investigate and to take a serious look at. Obviously if it produces bad fruit then probably not the way to go.
Jesus also said that you would know them by the "love that they would have among themselves".
When it comes to fighting in or even supporting the wars that are constantly going on on our planet earth, a true follower of Jesus would never fight in them in any way.
How have the Catholics done with this in recent history? Have they proved faithful to Jesus's commands? Have they remained neutral?
Just type this in in your search and see how they have done........ (historical photographs of catholic priest blessing Hitlers army's)
There are actual photos of them sprinkling their "holy water" on Hitlers guns and other weapons that would very possibly be used to kill other Catholics.
How does Jehovah and his son Jesus feel about this?
@galveston75 saidHow does Jehovah and his son Jesus feel about this?
@KingDavid403
Hi and yes you would know them by their fruits. If a tree produces good fruit then then you are probably looking at a good thing to investigate and to take a serious look at. Obviously if it produces bad fruit then probably not the way to go.
Jesus also said that you would know them by the "love that they would have among themselves".
When it comes to ...[text shortened]... y possibly be used to kill other Catholics.
How does Jehovah and his son Jesus feel about this?
How does Jesus, aka God, feel about this?
https://avoidjw.org/news/crimes-committed-jehovahs-witnesses/