1. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    The Axe man
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    22 Oct '18 08:192 edits
    Go!!

    (perhaps this should be in debates but it should be more juicy here. After all they are both proponents of the one true God )
  2. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
    A Spirited Misfit
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    22 Oct '18 10:15
    @karoly-aczel said
    Go!!

    (perhaps this should be in debates but it should be more juicy here. After all they are both proponents of the one true God )
    Get a life.
  3. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    The Axe man
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    22 Oct '18 10:271 edit
    @ghost-of-a-duke said
    Get a life.
    They both claim to be Christian, yet in debates they occupy different ends of the political spectrum .
    Where's the problem? Should make for an interesting 'talk' .
  4. Joined
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    22 Oct '18 19:541 edit
    We could start with abortion.

    Why is it that pretty much ever church I know refers to it as murder, yet she insists it is not?

    As I have said before, this is the foundation of Christian support for Donald Trump.

    Think of it this way, a Christian is living in Nazi Germany and is faced with voting for a Nazi, whose socialist policies they like, or an opponent who lambasts the Holocaust.

    Who do you vote for?

    It would seem to me, you would be forced into voting for the other person, so long as they don't advocate genocide as well.
  5. Joined
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    22 Oct '18 21:283 edits
    @whodey said
    We could start with abortion.

    Why is it that pretty much ever church I know refers to it as murder, yet she insists it is not?

    As I have said before, this is the foundation of Christian support for Donald Trump.

    Think of it this way, a Christian is living in Nazi Germany and is faced with voting for a Nazi, whose socialist policies they like, or an opponent who lambas ...[text shortened]... u would be forced into voting for the other person, so long as they don't advocate genocide as well.
    Why is it that pretty much ever church I know refers to it as murder, yet she insists it is not?

    As with so many other things, it comes down to willful ignorance on your part:
    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/06/21/where-major-religious-groups-stand-on-abortion/

    Abortion is still a difficult, contentious and even unresolved issue for some religious groups...

    Many of the nation’s largest mainline Protestant denominations – including the Episcopal Church, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and the Methodists – also support abortion rights, although several of these churches temper this support with the call for some limits on when a woman can terminate her pregnancy. For instance, while the Episcopal Church opposes statutory limits on abortion, it teaches that “it should be used only in extreme situations.”

    There are several religious groups that have no public position on abortion...And for the National Baptist Convention, a historically black Protestant denomination in the U.S., church policy is to allow each individual congregation to determine its views on abortion.

    Even when a religious institution has a clearly stated policy on abortion, church members may not always agree. For instance, roughly half of all U.S. Catholics (48% ) say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, in spite of the Catholic Church’s strong opposition.


    With the Bible being open to interpretation as to when life begins, the above should come as no surprise.
  6. Joined
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    23 Oct '18 00:233 edits
    @thinkofone said
    Why is it that pretty much ever church I know refers to it as murder, yet she insists it is not?

    As with so many other things, it comes down to willful ignorance on your part:
    [quote]http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/06/21/where-major-religious-groups-stand-on-abortion/

    Abortion is still a difficult, contentious and even unresolved issue for some rel ...[text shortened]... the Bible being open to interpretation as to when life begins, the above should come as no surprise.
    Wait..........wut?

    So you cite the Episcopal church as having "tempered" their support to show that churches support abortion? The issue is abortion on demand, not tempering it for life threatening medical emergencies like an ectopic pregnancy that even I support

    That is disingenuous to say the least.

    And I know, there are liberal churches out there that basically trash the literal interpretation of the Bible and pretty much make it up as they go. These liberals treat the Bible like they do the Constitution. It is just a living breathing ever changing document to mold according to our specific desires and needs.

    As for Catholics, it is the official church doctrine that abortion is murder. And I kind of get why so many Catholics are so lax regarding it. It is because they have someone like the Pope give sermons on the evils of global warming and those that build walls go to hell, while basically ignoring the self identified genocide that is ongoing. They know that the Pope must not believe it is murder so why should they?

    But then, the Catholic church was complicit during the Holocaust as well, all in an effort at self preservation, so it's nothing new to them.

    Well guess what, they still have their precious Vatican and the treasures therein, I hope it was worth the cost.
  7. Joined
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    23 Oct '18 00:271 edit
    Those that wish to use the Bible to justify abortion on demand must confront verses like this.



    Psalm 139:13-16
    13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. 14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. 15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth. 16 Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.


    They are also hard pressed to show scripture that supports abortion on demand.

    It does not exist.
  8. Standard memberchaney3
    Bring it on.......
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    23 Oct '18 00:28
    I thought this thread was about a no holds barred fight.

    Suzianne would win, with her martial arts prowess. 😀
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    23 Oct '18 00:32
    @chaney3 said
    I thought this thread was about a no holds barred fight.

    Suzianne would win, with her martial arts prowess. 😀
    No chance, I know karate in 5 different languages!
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    23 Oct '18 00:441 edit
    The Bible says that children are a blessing. In fact, those who were barren were considered cursed.



    Psalm 127:3-5
    3 Children are a heritage from the LORD, offspring a reward from him. 4 Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are children born in one’s youth. 5 Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. They will not be put to shame when they contend with their opponents in court.


    The story of Abraham being told to sacrifice his son Isaac is key to understanding how the God of the Bible separated itself from other religions during that time. For you see, it was customary for pagans to sacrifice their children to idol gods for various benefits such as fertility, victory on the battlefield, and good crops, etc. It was all done for material gain. God telling Abraham to stop before sacrificing his son told the ancient world that the God of the Bible was different.

    Interestingly, today the vast majority of women have abortions for the same reason. It is to reduce their financial burden or to promote their careers, etc. They still sacrifice their children to the gods of materialism, and Karl Marx is their high priest as he preaches the righteous jihad of taking money from the rich to make the world right again.
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    23 Oct '18 01:45
    @whodey said
    Wait..........wut?

    So you cite the Episcopal church as having "tempered" their support to show that churches support abortion? The issue is abortion on demand, not tempering it for life threatening medical emergencies like an ectopic pregnancy that even I support

    That is disingenuous to say the least.

    And I know, there are liberal churches out there that basically tr ...[text shortened]... hat, they still have their precious Vatican and the treasures therein, I hope it was worth the cost.
    Read what you actually wrote in the post to which I responded.

    Read what I actually wrote.

    Read what that I actually quoted from the article.

    See if you can formulate a well reasoned response instead of your usual absurdity.

    Here's a big hint:
    1) Your post says, "Why is it that pretty much ever church I know refers to it as murder..."
    2) The article says, "Many of the nation’s largest mainline Protestant denominations – including the Episcopal Church, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and the Methodists – also support abortion rights..."
    3) I wrote, "As with so many other things, it comes down to willful ignorance on your part...".
  12. Standard membervivify
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    23 Oct '18 04:11
    @karoly-aczel said
    They both claim to be Christian, yet in debates they occupy different ends of the political spectrum .
    Where's the problem? Should make for an interesting 'talk' .
    They're also on opposite sides of the Christian spectrum. Suzi believes much of the bible is allegorical , while Whodey believes in a more literal version.
  13. SubscriberSuzianne
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    23 Oct '18 04:241 edit
    @chaney3 said
    I thought this thread was about a no holds barred fight.

    Suzianne would win, with her martial arts prowess. 😀
    "The lioness does not turn for the barking of dogs." -- African proverb
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    23 Oct '18 17:262 edits
    @suzianne said
    "The lioness does not turn for the barking of dogs." -- African proverb
    Yes, but does the lioness eat her cubs?

    Whodey proberb. Breaking that down according to continent of origin, that is 1/23 German, 2/63 English, 1/3 Dutch, 1/1024 Indian, 2/452 African proverb.

    Just for the racist Progressives out there.
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    23 Oct '18 17:282 edits
    @vivify said
    They're also on opposite sides of the Christian spectrum. Suzi believes much of the bible is allegorical , while Whodey believes in a more literal version.
    Incorrect, I think there is allegory in the Bible, as is literal facts.

    Now when it says that God forms us in the womb, I don't think that allegorical.

    Apparently Suzi does.

    In addition, I reckon Mary and Joseph could have aborted her child, no problem according to lioness brain.
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