Why are you are an atheist

Originally posted by googlefudge
Yes because that's a totally accurate description of his position... not.

The neutral position on any truth claim is lack of belief until presented with evidence sufficient to justify
belief one way or another. There is no evidence for the existence of gods, and thus no justification for
belief in their existence. Therefore the rational position i ...[text shortened]... efinition of a religion.

All world views are not necessarily religious just because yours is.

The neutral position on any truth claim is lack of belief until presented with evidence sufficient to justify
belief one way or another.

So what is your belief about the origin of life, and the origin of the universe?

Originally posted by googlefudge
What was I saying about Christians and other theists making up straw man definitions because it makes fighting atheists easier for them?

Except it doesn't make it easier for them. I offered to use any definition someone wants for the purposes of this thread and suddenly they had nothing more to say on the subject. Definitions are just a tool for communication, they cannot be used to prove or demonstrate something. There are good reasons for insisting on an agreed definition as it improves communication but other than that what the definition should be isn't all that important.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
[b] The neutral position on any truth claim is lack of belief until presented with evidence sufficient to justify
belief one way or another.

So what is your belief about the origin of life, and the origin of the universe?[/b]

Why do you feel a need to 'believe' one or other theory about how life and universe came into being? None of us actually know the answers to these questions, why pretend otherwise?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
[b] The neutral position on any truth claim is lack of belief until presented with evidence sufficient to justify
belief one way or another.

So what is your belief about the origin of life, and the origin of the universe?[/b]

I don't know, but I have rationally discounted the idea of God. It is a mistake to think that my inability to give a precise alternative gives any credence to your God theory.

If you asked me to explain how images appear on my television screen, I would shrug my shoulders. This however would lend no credence to your assertion that little pixies are inside my tv and work their magic.

Truth is, I don't know (with any certainty) how life began in the universe. I just find your explanation lacking in evidence and reason.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
[b] The neutral position on any truth claim is lack of belief until presented with evidence sufficient to justify
belief one way or another.

So what is your belief about the origin of life, and the origin of the universe?[/b]

So what is your belief about the origin of the universe?

I don't have one. Science cannot currently see too, let alone past, the first tiny fractions of a second
after 'the big bang' which was the defining formative event for the visible universe as we see it today.
I don't know if there was a before the big bang, if the universe has existed in some form forever, or
if the universe and time both came into existence at the moment of the big bang.
So I currently have not got sufficient evidence to justify belief in any particular proposed explanation
for the origin of the universe. There are quite a number of competing scientific hypothesis on the topic
and an entire field of science basically devoted to studying this, but no definitive answers as yet.

However, because this is spirituality forum and I know what's coming next, I will add that there is
still no evidence for, nor need or benefit from, supposing that a god or gods did it.
And indeed any such proposed explanation would be both completely useless and astronomically
improbable a-priori as compared to naturalistic explanations.
Gods being vastly [if not infinitely] more complex and thus less probable than natural explanations.

So what is your belief about the origin of life?

Ah, well for the origins of life we do have lots of evidence that it's possible for life to form under the conditions
expected to have occurred on the early Earth. In fact the basic building blocks of life seem to be able to
form in an enormous number of unlikely locations including gas and dust clouds in outer space.
Precisely how it did actually form [and it's possible it formed more than once on the early Earth] is not
known and probably never will be as we have many different plausible paths and no way to tell which one
or ones were actually taken.

After that formation we have enormous piles of evidence for that initial life evolving to form the diversity of
life we see today via evolution by natural selection. Which is one of the most supported and verified theories
in the history of science. And forms the foundations of biology and medicine.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Except it doesn't make it easier for them. I offered to use any definition someone wants for the purposes of this thread and suddenly they had nothing more to say on the subject. Definitions are just a tool for communication, they cannot be used to prove or demonstrate something. There are good reasons for insisting on an agreed definition as it improves communication but other than that what the definition should be isn't all that important.

It doesn't help them here... But it does help them out in the real world when dealing with
people not versed in this subject or their methods, and when preaching to fellow theists.

Of course it falls down when faced with people who do know what they are talking about
but that's the exception and not the rule.

There are good reasons for insisting on an agreed definition as it improves communication but other than that what the definition should be isn't all that important.

In general I agree absolutely, but when it comes to labelling people it gets trickier because people
invest in the labels they 'wear' and when you start trying to make those labels mean something
else it's a bigger deal than if it's just a neutral word.

In some parts of the world [including various places in the USA] atheists are persecuted by Christians
to the extent that people talk about revealing the fact that they are an atheist in the same way that
people talk about revealing that they are gay or transgender and with similar fears about repercussions
should they do so. Now obviously I have never had this problem, but I have heard stories of and from
people in the UK who have. Given that fact, when Christians try to re-define atheism to suite their needs
and to try to discredit and further undermine atheists... That's not simply arguing over the definition of a
word, it's the extension and continuation of there ongoing attempts to persecute atheists.
Which I will not tolerate.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Why do you feel a need to 'believe' one or other theory about how life and universe came into being? None of us actually know the answers to these questions, why pretend otherwise?

Because what you believe about your origins will shape your worldview and ultimately affect your morals and your entire outlook on life. It will answer what I view as the 4 most important questions about life. Who am I? Where do I come from? What is the purpose of my existence? And what happens to me when I die?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Because what you believe about your origins will shape your worldview and ultimately affect your morals and your entire outlook on life. It will answer what I view as the 4 most important questions about life. Who am I? Where do I come from? What is the purpose of my existence? And what happens to me when I die?

That is simply not true. Your beliefs with regards to those questions have nothing to do with your beliefs about origins, they have to do with your belief in the existence of God and your beliefs about God. That God is involved in origins in your beliefs is incidental.
For those who do not believe in God, beliefs about origins again have little or nothing to do with answering those questions.

Originally posted by twhitehead
That is simply not true. Your beliefs with regards to those questions have nothing to do with your beliefs about origins, they have to do with your belief in the existence of God and your beliefs about God. That God is involved in origins in your beliefs is incidental.
For those who do not believe in God, beliefs about origins again have little or nothing to do with answering those questions.

Yes they do. If you believe in abiogenesis your answers to those question will be different to someone who believes in creation.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Yes they do. If you believe in abiogenesis your answers to those question will be different to someone who believes in creation.

But not because of those beliefs.
I believe abiogenesis took place. I also believe there is no life after death. Other members of my family also believe abiogenesis took place, but they believe there is life after death.
None of us, when answering the questions you listed, take abiogenesis into account when answering them. Nor do you.
If the Bible said the universe was created by the Angel James and that man was put here by aliens, that would not affect your belief in God or your answers to any of those questions.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Because what you believe about your origins will shape your worldview and ultimately affect your morals and your entire outlook on life. It will answer what I view as the 4 most important questions about life. Who am I? Where do I come from? What is the purpose of my existence? And what happens to me when I die?

With the possible exception of procreation, there is no purpose to your existence, no more anyhow than a hippo has a purpose for its existence or an aardvark.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
With the possible exception of procreation,...

Why would that be an exception?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Why would that be an exception?

I was accounting for those people incapable of procreation. 🙂

Originally posted by twhitehead
But not because of those beliefs.
I believe abiogenesis took place. I also believe there is no life after death. Other members of my family also believe abiogenesis took place, but they believe there is life after death.
None of us, when answering the questions you listed, take abiogenesis into account when answering them. Nor do you.
If the Bible said ...[text shortened]... e by aliens, that would not affect your belief in God or your answers to any of those questions.

Lol do your family believe God used abiogenesis to create life?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I was accounting for those people incapable of procreation. 🙂

I don't understand. Are you saying those who are incapable have no purpose but those who are capable do? Why would procreation be a purpose at all?