1. Subscriberduecer
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    27 Oct '10 14:461 edit
    To my friends of faith:

    You will never convince an atheist that God exists, it is a fruitless time consuming waist of effort. The notion of faith is foreign to them, they act only on what they know to be certain. Trying to “convince” them that the bible is true, by using the bible as a source is called a tautology, and logically can never accomplish what you hope. It is also unwise to insist that there are no contradictions in the bible. This book was written thousands of years ago, and often times the contextual references are unavailable because of the relative distance, so things appear to contradict, or at the very least create an uneasy tension. Please remember that it is the word of God, not the words of God.

    To my atheist friends:

    We people of faith are just that… a people of faith. Of course we cannot prove the existence of God. I am not sure I would want to even if I could. You see hope in ends in fruition and faith ends in sight. There is comfort in being able to hope, and there is a strength we gain in faith. If we know for certain, beyond any shadow of a doubt that God exists, then it is no longer faith it is knowledge. Our acts of worship would most certainly change as a result. Instead of the beautiful experience we now know it as; I fear it would become a joyless obligation. I feel sorry for you that you are unable to feel the strength and joy that we feel from our faith and our hope (yes I know, you don’t want my pity, but you have it anyway.)

    To the both of you:

    Why argue? Will it change anything one iota if you do? I would offer the idea that perhaps not arguing makes the world a better place. Peace be with you all.
  2. Joined
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    27 Oct '10 14:50
    Originally posted by duecer
    To my friends of faith:

    You will never convince an atheist that God exists, it is a fruitless time consuming waist of effort. The notion of faith is foreign to them, the act only on what they know to be certain. Trying to “convince” them that the bible is true by using the bible as a source is called a tautology, and logically can never accomplish what you ...[text shortened]... d offer the idea that perhaps not arguing makes the world a better place. Peace be with you all.
    debate is fun for debate's sake. we argue our position, we listent to another's position, we react to new ideas, we form new ones to counter-argue. we discard foolish notions and maybe we learn something.


    debating is fun.
  3. Subscriberduecer
    anybody seen my
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    27 Oct '10 14:59
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi



    debating is fun.
    no it's not😠
  4. Cape Town
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    27 Oct '10 15:13
    Originally posted by duecer
    Why argue? Will it change anything one iota if you do? I would offer the idea that perhaps not arguing makes the world a better place. Peace be with you all.
    To have fun, and to learn more, and hopefully to help others learn more too. You are quite wrong to think that we do not learn from each other. It is not necessary to convince me to be Christian for you to teach me more about Christianity. I may have serious misconceptions about your faith. The very fact that you address me in your post implies I have something to learn from you.
    You too may have much to learn from me. I should not need to cause you to loose your faith in order to educate you more about my own beliefs, and I might even help you learn more about your own.
    You may also learn from your fellow Christians and I learn from atheists.

    And finally, you are quite wrong about people changing. Without evangelism, religions would not spread other than through population growth. And several people in this forum have said that they have become atheist partly as a result of discussions here.
  5. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    27 Oct '10 20:521 edit
    Can I put my "Pulp Fiction" take on here. It seems apt.

    For those of you who have not seen it is dominated at the start and end by one biblical quote" Ezikel 25:17 . The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the eniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, who in the name of chariy and goodwill, shepards the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brothers keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengence and furious anger those who attempt poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengence upon thee."

    Is this quote true?
    Anyway the point at the end was that both Travolta and Jackson had the same job, they worked well together, but after the "miracle" Jackson wanted to change his way. He called it walking the Earth, Travolta called it "being a bum".
    Seems to me that Travolta was the athiest and Jackson was the theist.

    In this depiction, I much prefer Jacksons take, because he says he could feel "God" working on him. So from his personal experience did he proceed, despite being shown for what a fool he seemed like.
  6. Joined
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    27 Oct '10 20:521 edit
    Originally posted by duecer
    To my friends of faith:

    You will never convince an atheist that God exists, it is a fruitless time consuming waist of effort. The notion of faith is foreign to them, they act only on what they know to be certain. Trying to “convince” them that the bible is true, by using the bible as a source is called a tautology, and logically can never accomplish what y ...[text shortened]... d offer the idea that perhaps not arguing makes the world a better place. Peace be with you all.
    I make it a point to only argue with theist types; there is no point arguing with atheists as they are obviously right and we (theists) are obviously wrong - there is no argument to be had.

    Theists (of all factions, leanings and philosophies) are much more fun; being theists, they are irrational, illogical, often cultish, sometimes are cults, they are lemming-like, deluded make-it-up-as-you-go-along weirdoes who deny the subliminally and blatantly obvious facts and yet believe the ridiculous myths of yore at the drop of a hat.

    Being a theist is fun.
  7. Jo'Burg South Africa
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    27 Oct '10 21:05
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    To have fun, and to learn more, and hopefully to help others learn more too. You are quite wrong to think that we do not learn from each other. It is not necessary to convince me to be Christian for you to teach me more about Christianity. I may have serious misconceptions about your faith. The very fact that you address me in your post implies I have som ...[text shortened]... le in this forum have said that they have become atheist partly as a result of discussions here.
    Many of the people who became atheists here were already there (not believing in God and being an atheist) before they even joined the site. Maybe this just helped to finally categorize them - just saying it bluntly.

    To come back to the original post - I also sometimes feel that why fight a losing battle? But that is exactly what the devil want, and that is for Christians to stop fighting, take verbal beatings (here on RHP) and to be found on the losing end - so it seems to most people. The fact is, we need to fight, spread the Word and tell people about God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Thus, I don't think I'll back off - cause according to me and my faith - I am doing right in fighting for a soul that was lost that could possibly be saved for God. What harm can it really do? 😉
  8. Standard memberHand of Hecate
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    27 Oct '10 23:07
    Originally posted by Nicksten
    Many of the people who became atheists here were already there (not believing in God and being an atheist) before they even joined the site. Maybe this just helped to finally categorize them - just saying it bluntly.

    To come back to the original post - I also sometimes feel that why fight a losing battle? But that is exactly what the devil want, and that ...[text shortened]... for a soul that was lost that could possibly be saved for God. What harm can it really do? 😉
    What a ridiculous little person you are. The Devil wants you to annoy atheists with your confused fantasies? Your idiotic babbling is certain to make people stupider by listening to you, but, are you really going to win any converts?

    You're not one of those morons that come to my door on Saturday mornings trying to sell me on the watchtower are you? Thank god for sprinklers.
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    27 Oct '10 23:23
    Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
    What a ridiculous little person you are. The Devil wants you to annoy atheists with your confused fantasies? Your idiotic babbling is certain to make people stupider by listening to you, but, are you really going to win any converts?

    You're not one of those morons that come to my door on Saturday mornings trying to sell me on the watchtower are you? Thank god for sprinklers.
    Instead of the "morons as you say" coming to your door because of doing what Jesus commanded us to do and out of their own time and money trying only to share the Good News of the Kingdom that Jesus taught us with you, you need to politely, if you can, ask them to not return to your door at all and they will mark your name down on a list of "do not call at this door ever" and they will do their best to not bother you again..................
  10. SubscriberSuzianne
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    27 Oct '10 23:35
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Can I put my "Pulp Fiction" take on here. It seems apt.

    For those of you who have not seen it is dominated at the start and end by one biblical quote" Ezikel 25:17 . The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the eniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, who in the name of chariy and goodwill, shepards the ...[text shortened]... ersonal experience did he proceed, despite being shown for what a fool he seemed like.
    Ezekiel 25:17 is simply this:

    "And I will execute great vengeance upon them with furious rebukes; and they shall know that I am the Lord, when I shall lay my vengeance upon them."

    Close, to be sure. I'm not 100% sure where all the preceding stuff in the quote came from, but it sounds biblical, doesn't it? (And before you ask, no, it's not from Ezekiel 25:16 or 25:15.)

    I agree with the idea that Vincent was the atheist while Jules was the theist. (After the "miracle", Jules told Vincent in the car not to "blaspheme".) The incident at the coffee shop was defused by Jules, giving us a foreboding of how Jules might live his life after quitting his current career. Vincent may have belittled Jules' choice by calling it "being a bum", but Jules was hardly a fool. He quit "the life" and lived. Vincent stayed on and died in a bathroom at the hands of Butch.

    There's a message there for all of us.
  11. Standard memberHand of Hecate
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    27 Oct '10 23:39
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Instead of the "morons as you say" coming to your door because of doing what Jesus commanded us to do and out of their own time and money trying only to share the Good News of the Kingdom that Jesus taught us with you, you need to politely, if you can, ask them to not return to your door at all and they will mark your name down on a list of "do not call at this door ever" and they will do their best to not bother you again..................
    This has been clearly explained to said miscreants upon a number of occasions and yet they persist. I don't care if Zues himself told them to come knocking. Don't knock on my door on Saturday morning unless you are in dire need of medical attention or other assistance. How much clearer does this need to be. Hence the sprinklers.
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    27 Oct '10 23:46
    Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
    This has been clearly explained to said miscreants upon a number of occasions and yet they persist. I don't care if Zues himself told them to come knocking. Don't knock on my door on Saturday morning unless you are in dire need of medical attention or other assistance. How much clearer does this need to be. Hence the sprinklers.
    So you would turn on the sprinklers sending them to the Doctor's Office? Are you planning on giving them a cold? You evil person you! 😀
  13. SubscriberSuzianne
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    27 Oct '10 23:50
    Originally posted by Nicksten
    Many of the people who became atheists here were already there (not believing in God and being an atheist) before they even joined the site. Maybe this just helped to finally categorize them - just saying it bluntly.

    To come back to the original post - I also sometimes feel that why fight a losing battle? But that is exactly what the devil want, and that ...[text shortened]... for a soul that was lost that could possibly be saved for God. What harm can it really do? 😉
    The warrior of God must take care not to conduct himself in such a way that he actually turns more people from God than he brings to God. This seems to me to be the only harm it could possibly do to uphold the good fight for the souls of men.
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    27 Oct '10 23:58
    Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
    This has been clearly explained to said miscreants upon a number of occasions and yet they persist. I don't care if Zues himself told them to come knocking. Don't knock on my door on Saturday morning unless you are in dire need of medical attention or other assistance. How much clearer does this need to be. Hence the sprinklers.
    Well it must be the love they have for all fellow humans that keeps bringing them back. Sorry but we tend to be that way.
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    28 Oct '10 00:151 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    The warrior of God must take care not to conduct himself in such a way that he actually turns more people from God than he brings to God. This seems to me to be the only harm it could possibly do to uphold the good fight for the souls of men.
    Isaiah 42:18-24 (King James Version)

    18Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see.

    19Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant?

    20Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.

    21The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

    22But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore.

    23Who among you will give ear to this? who will hearken and hear for the time to come?

    24Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law.

    I state this because Jacob is this blind man that shall magnify the law, and make it honorable, like Elias truly coming and restoring ALL things which is why no one cometh to the Father but by Jesus, the one God girds, and was given for a spoil, to renew all mankind, and free them from their captivities of ignorant consciousness. Jesus IS Jacob, the stone the builders reject, the woman in travail to bare a manchild, ( "No one can enter into the kingdom of Heaven lest he become a child again." ), which IS Peter, what his story pertains to, prophesying now times, they all are one in the same, the son of man, BUILDING HIMSELF once again! UNIVERSAL SALVATION

    And a child SHALL lead, a MANchild!
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