1. Standard memberapathist
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    21 Jan '18 23:283 edits
    YouTube

    5 mins, kinda packed solid. Not much froth.
  2. Standard memberapathist
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    21 Jan '18 23:34
    YouTube&t=48s
  3. SubscriberSuzianne
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    21 Jan '18 23:582 edits
    Originally posted by @apathist
    [youtube]h1ImMtHrrKo[/youtube]

    5 mins, kinda packed solid. Not much froth.
    To make this link usable, take out the "&t=48s".

    The only part you need in the forum link is the 11-digit Youtube ID.

    Here, let me do that in the post I quoted. There, now that should work.

    Edit: bah, you can't make the link work from inside the quote box. 😞
  4. SubscriberFMF
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    22 Jan '18 00:05
    Originally posted by @apathist
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1ImMtHrrKo&t=48s
    YouTube
  5. SubscriberSuzianne
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    22 Jan '18 00:20
    Originally posted by @apathist
    [youtube]h1ImMtHrrKo&t=48s[/youtube]

    5 mins, kinda packed solid. Not much froth.
    Ok, this video is self-serving in a way. No, hear me out.

    It assumes that ALL religion is this way. It is not. Or at least it SHOULD not be.

    I've talked in this forum about why Christians should not hold most of these views. Yes, I am a political liberal. I happen to agree with 90% of this video. The atheist doesn't get that no, it doesn't have to be this way. These supposedly "religious" attitudes about life on this planet are indeed problems caused by MAN, not God. Atheists are like anyone else. They use their argument because they have decided what the course of action should be and F everyone else if they can't get on board with them. This makes their argument as bad as the religious argument.

    One can be Christian withOUT all the standard religious hypocritical bullcrap ideas this video rails against. Yes, atheists have ONE thing which separates them from God. They don't believe in him. That's ALL. You can believe in God, and even believe in his Son, the Savior, without resorting to the lazy ass thinking that most religious people adopt. But no, atheists are set enough in their own thinking that they cannot envision a religion without all the hype, and so they throw the baby out with the bathwater. ONE thing is important in my religion, and that is Jesus Christ. Almost ALL of the rest of it is crap, designed only to to keep people down. And yes, you CAN have Jesus Christ without all the baloney. Of course, Rome or Salt Lake City isn't going to agree to that, because they have too much invested in their control. I do not naysay any of those charges atheists bring against religion. But, because of the insignificance of almost ALL of the rest of it, atheists also think it's all one big package to either accept it all, or reject it all, they assume it is ALL insignificant. And that is just not true.
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    22 Jan '18 00:27
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    But no, atheists are set enough in their own thinking that they cannot envision a religion without all the hype, and so they throw the baby out with the bathwater.
    Just to be clear, part of what you are objecting to is people generalizing about others' beliefs, right?

    What proportion of atheists do you think are non-believers because "they cannot envision a religion without all the hype"?
  7. SubscriberFMF
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    22 Jan '18 00:301 edit
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    ...atheists also think it's all one big package to either accept it all, or reject it all, they assume it is ALL insignificant.
    Atheists are a very diverse bunch. What proportion of them do you believe think the stuff you are attributing to them? What proportion do you think lack a belief in a supernatural creator because of this "it's all one big package" thing that you're talking about?
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    22 Jan '18 00:36
    Originally posted by @apathist
    [youtube]h1ImMtHrrKo&t=48s[/youtube]

    5 mins, kinda packed solid. Not much froth.
    I’m not going to bother looking at your link; can you provide a précis?
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
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    22 Jan '18 00:44
    Originally posted by @fmf
    Just to be clear, part of what you are objecting to is people generalizing about others' beliefs, right?

    What proportion of atheists do you think are non-believers because "they cannot envision a religion without all the hype"?
    Stop nit-picking me.

    What other Christian here says these things?

    She generalized a lot in the video, I respond in kind. Yes, people rail against "religion" not solely because of the belief in God, but because of all the rest of the "package" that is clearly bull: the oppression, the wars, the refusal to accept science, the racism, the sexism, yes. The point of this video is that, yes, if the only difference between "religionists" and atheists was simple belief, then most probably wouldn't care about the religion. The point is that atheists should care simply because believing in God somehow leads one to believe in all the rest of it, and that is just wrong.

    Any more stupid "gotchas" in your pipeline?
  10. SubscriberSuzianne
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    22 Jan '18 00:46
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    I’m not going to bother looking at your link; can you provide a précis?
    You should bother going to the link. There's too much in it to summarize succinctly.
  11. SubscriberSuzianne
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    22 Jan '18 00:48
    Originally posted by @fmf
    Atheists are a very diverse bunch. What proportion of them do you believe think the stuff you are attributing to them? What proportion do you think lack a belief in a supernatural creator because of this "it's all one big package" thing that you're talking about?
    I'm going to cut you off right there and tell you I'm not going to respond to this. It's pointless and is just you trying to "shut down" ANYthing I say. So go pound sand.
  12. SubscriberFMF
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    22 Jan '18 00:55
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    I'm going to cut you off right there and tell you I'm not going to respond to this. It's pointless and is just you trying to "shut down" ANYthing I say. So go pound sand.
    On the contrary, I am engaging what you said. Are you trying to shut down/cut off what I am saying, by any chance? I think you are generalizing about atheists. I think you are projecting onto them what is most likely a secondary concern for most, and citing it as a primary or widespread reason for their lack of belief.
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    22 Jan '18 00:571 edit
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    The point is that atheists should care simply because believing in God somehow leads one to believe in all the rest of it, and that is just wrong.
    For what proportion of atheists do you believe this "all the rest of it" thing you are talking about is the reason for not believing in supernatural causality? I'd have thought it was a minority. The video is essentially about politics and ideology, and not about spirituality and faith.
  14. SubscriberFMF
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    22 Jan '18 01:05
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    people rail against "religion" not solely because of the belief in God, but because of all the rest of the "package" that is clearly bull
    People - both believers and non-believers - may have strong objections to the excesses and alienations of organized religion, but I think belief in God or a lack of belief in God does not hinge on that for most non-believers because there are clearly alternatives to 'ugly religion' for those who are interested in - or persuaded by - Christian beliefs. I think you are entering a pretty clumsy idea into this conversation by generalizing about people who lack belief in this way.
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    22 Jan '18 01:15
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    She generalized a lot in the video, I respond in kind.
    Why would you respond in kind if it's to the detriment of what you are saying?

    ...atheists are set enough in their own thinking that they cannot envision a religion without all the hype...

    I can. And most atheists I know can. I think pretty much all the atheists in this community probably can. The ugliness of organized religion rarely comes up - sonhouse's stock lament aside - in discussions on this forum.

    Who are you talking about when you say "they cannot envision" something?
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