1. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    05 Dec '11 02:201 edit
    I believe there a forces at work in the "Spiritual dimension" who are looking to obfuscate our meanings and keep ourselves divided against each other to make sure its "business as usual" for them , which for millenia have been misinforming the masses to keep that hate alive for their fellow man-as opposed to something along the lines of say (from example) the example that Jesus laid down for us (amongst others). They "preach" "love" and unity as the answer for our race to reclaim their own power and to realize that (for example) the words of JC are attempting to unify the people, to erradicate fear, and basically to reclaim our power that we once had but have now lost, due to the Dark Ages, and other ploys.


    The best agent of hate is one who is not aware that they are promoting it in the first place. Like the movie makers of late who have been making movies about hostile aliens (independence Day and their ilk). Perhaps they are looking for a new common enemy to further justify their military spending.

    Any ideas? Or is this just another conspiracy theory , that (at least one) will accuse me of and therefor will not go any further into it because they are convinced that people like me are just paranoid conspiracy theorists that are speaking crap and that I have just swalloed other people ideas of conspiracy theories, whereas my is unique based on many things. There is a huge conspiracy against us humans. to remain in our little fearful little ways of thinking, and this is precisely what they want. In this way they keep people divided against each other, (families against families , neighbours agaonst neighbours,etc.)

    Is there anyone out there that agrees with my synopsis of this situation, even remotely, as I would like to flesh out some points , and possibly make some inroads into this "divided self syndrome" -scizophrenia.
    obviously we need to understand what we are talking about here. It is my intention to unify , to whatever degree, our opposing views. If this OP does the opposite , I will immediatly try to show where the disagreement is and hopefully rectify the situation .

    (this thread may well back fire, but I have started it in all good faith , to hopefully unify some points of view rather than make them even more devisive. )
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    05 Dec '11 03:121 edit
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I believe there a forces at work in the "Spiritual dimension" who are looking to obfuscate our meanings and keep ourselves divided against each other to make sure its "business as usual" for them , which for millenia have been misinforming the masses to keep that hate alive for their fellow man-as opposed to something along the lines of say (from examp , to hopefully unify some points of view rather than make them even more devisive. )
    Jesus preached unity?

    Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth, I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to see a set a man at variance against the mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes will be they of his own household. He that loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me. And he that takes not his cross and follows after ma, is not worthy of me. He that finds his life shall lose it, and he that loses his life for my sake shall find it.
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    05 Dec '11 03:16
    Originally posted by whodey
    Jesus preached unity?

    Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth, I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to see a set a man at variance against the mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes will be they of his own household. He that loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of ...[text shortened]... e. He that finds his life shall lose it, and he that loses his life for my sake shall find it.
    Good points. And why would these problems happen between say family members?
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    05 Dec '11 04:001 edit
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I believe there a forces at work in the "Spiritual dimension" who are looking to obfuscate our meanings and keep ourselves divided against each other to make sure its "business as usual" for them , which for millenia have been misinforming the masses to keep that hate alive for their fellow man-as opposed to something along the lines of say (from examp , to hopefully unify some points of view rather than make them even more devisive. )
    There is no conspiracy because there are no conspirators behind it. Oh yes there are conspirators within it. Humans, moths who disguise their identity, etc. Nature -- the natural world -- appears to involve movement from conflict to equilibrium and back again. It is a dynamic equilibrium, meaning even when the balance is constant, the entities making it up, change their roles in and out. And the balance point shifts. This can be as simple as an increase in temperature, that results in water where there was ice, where the molecules that were once crystallized do not care, or as complex as the destruction of a species, or an entire culture due to that same physical change. There is competition for scarce highly valuable resources. Killing and eating a bison provides cheap energy. People everywhere have to balance self-preservation with altruism, and people find different balance points. It's not just life, it's existence. In short, in certain ways, existence sucks, and life sucks even more. Imagine early life forms before consciousness, and you see them eating one another.

    I believe it will always be this way, and yet what makes life worth living is refusal to surrender to this fact.
  5. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    05 Dec '11 04:51
    Originally posted by whodey
    Jesus preached unity?

    Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth, I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to see a set a man at variance against the mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes will be they of his own household. He that loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of ...[text shortened]... e. He that finds his life shall lose it, and he that loses his life for my sake shall find it.
    Jesus said "love thy own neighbour [and indeed every one] "
    By logical conclusions I assume that the highest form of human love as to love and live together in fairness and trust-all of these are which related to "loving each other".

    If this "love" and subsequent pragmatism come about then I dare say unification would be a major by-product of that love for your everyman.
  6. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    05 Dec '11 05:05
    Originally posted by JS357
    There is no conspiracy because there are no conspirators behind it. Oh yes there are conspirators within it. Humans, moths who disguise their identity, etc. Nature -- the natural world -- appears to involve movement from conflict to equilibrium and back again. It is a dynamic equilibrium, meaning even when the balance is constant, the entities making it up, ch ...[text shortened]... always be this way, and yet what makes life worth living is refusal to surrender to this fact.
    You dont have to call it a conspiracy-it can be a history, or better yet a story.
    do you like telling stories? I do.
    Story telling has been one of the main tools used by masters to convey spiritual information in many different cultures. Sometimes they are called "shaman" .
    Stories a good for large groups as everyone can take from the story what they like.

    Consider an aborigonal living 20 000 ago in Austrlalia. Back then the spiritual elders would tell stories of extra -terrestrial encounters with beings from other worlds who showed them "wisdom" and showed them the integral earth chakra pints , where energies would meet and make water or other life giving plants or whatever. In this way they developed their own map of their areas. It is important to note that there were 3 hundred+ different dialect/languages amongst the indegenous peoples that once were the only people here.
    You could call them 300+ plus different countries in a pretty literal way. But where some tribes would meet with others ,and their land was on the other tribes', then they would co-write a mythology to connect their lands through their mainly animal based mythologies.
    I believe the aborigonals of Australia were one of the most interconnected race with spirituality and the "dreamtime" as they referred to it.
    They harmed the land less,less than any other race and they would move from area to are so as not to deplete the food stocks in one place too quickly , and then they could return again in a few years to get some more.
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    05 Dec '11 15:435 edits
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Jesus said "love thy own neighbour [and indeed every one] "
    By logical conclusions I assume that the highest form of human love as to love and live together in fairness and trust-all of these are which related to "loving each other".

    If this "love" and subsequent pragmatism come about then I dare say unification would be a major by-product of that love for your everyman.
    Almost everyone has a need to be a part of a group -- this ranges from small families and cliques all the way up to large nations with millions of people.

    Now its great to a member of a big happy family (call it the Hatfields). But there is this tendency for the Hatfields to devolve into bickering and rivalries and factions - things that can ultimately tear the family apart and destroy it. One of the easiest ways for the Hatfields to maintain peace and unity is to find a common enemy, the McCoys. Now, all the negative feelings that arise among members of the Hatfield family can be "safely" channeled against the members of the McCoy familiy

    Clearly, this may be the easiest way - but it is not the best way. The Hatfields may well achieve unity - but at the cost of creating a whole class of de-humanized people, the McCoys, who can then be treated horrifically.

    I think that when Jesus says love your enemy - and when he defines "neighbor" to include people like Samaritans or the Roman centurion - he's saying that the "common enemy" approach is folly and must be replaced by a better approach.

    The irony of this, as whodey pointed out, is that getting a group to stop hating its enemy is going to create lots of division. If some of the Hatfields decide they want to make peace with the McCoys, there will be strong opposition from those Hatfields who want to continue fighting with the McCoys. (And there will be similar division among the McCoys regarding whether to accept peace with the Hatfields).
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    05 Dec '11 16:39
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    You dont have to call it a conspiracy-it can be a history, or better yet a story.
    do you like telling stories? I do.
    Story telling has been one of the main tools used by masters to convey spiritual information in many different cultures. Sometimes they are called "shaman" .
    Stories a good for large groups as everyone can take from the story what the ...[text shortened]... one place too quickly , and then they could return again in a few years to get some more.
    I like stories, when they are not taken so literally that people who disbelieve them are persecuted. Separating out the important message, and all. Aesop was good at this.
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
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    05 Dec '11 18:12
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I believe there a forces at work in the "Spiritual dimension" who are looking to obfuscate our meanings and keep ourselves divided against each other to make sure its "business as usual" for them , which for millenia have been misinforming the masses to keep that hate alive for their fellow man-as opposed to something along the lines of say (from examp ...[text shortened]... , to hopefully unify some points of view rather than make them even more devisive. )
    The Holy Bible identifies these spirit forces against man and God that you speak
    of as Satan the Devil and the third of God's angels that also disobeyed God.
  10. Standard memberRJHinds
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    05 Dec '11 18:251 edit
    Originally posted by JS357
    I like stories, when they are not taken so literally that people who disbelieve them are persecuted. Separating out the important message, and all. Aesop was good at this.
    Maybe the stories of Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, and Goofy would be good
    for you.

    P.S. Who would persecute the little child for believing in Bugs Bunny?
  11. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    06 Dec '11 02:46
    Originally posted by JS357
    I like stories, when they are not taken so literally that people who disbelieve them are persecuted. Separating out the important message, and all. Aesop was good at this.
    That is one of the main reasons I like stories ,ie, there is less likely chance of people being persecuted.


    Whenever a debate turns personal, especially about spirituality, then I am saddened and feel there is no further point in continuing
  12. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    06 Dec '11 02:46
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The Holy Bible identifies these spirit forces against man and God that you speak
    of as Satan the Devil and the third of God's angels that also disobeyed God.
    It's a shame that you limit your knowledge to the bible.
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    06 Dec '11 02:551 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Maybe the stories of Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, and Goofy would be good
    for you.
    An apt comparison. Except Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, and Goofy aren't quite as outrageous.
  14. Standard memberRJHinds
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    06 Dec '11 03:17
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    It's a shame that you limit your knowledge to the bible.
    I don't do that because that would limit my understanding of the Holy Bible.
  15. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    06 Dec '11 07:36
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I don't do that because that would limit my understanding of the Holy Bible.
    I dont see how. you can keep increasing your knowledge of the bible while learning other things,no?
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