Spirituality
10 Jan 22
11 Jan 22
@josephw saidI think you project here an outdated form of Christianity that needs a serious upgrade.
As an agnostic-atheist you are by default subject to speculation with regards to the afterlife.
I am not.
@josephw saidYou are channelling Dasa, again. He was as certain as you are about his "knowledge" of a completely different afterlife. He was speculating about it. You are speculating about it. And I am speculating about it.
As an agnostic-atheist you are by default subject to speculation with regards to the afterlife.I am not.
11 Jan 22
@kellyjay saidYes, I know the dogma. But in your single-minded desire to simply recite it, you don't seem to be reading what you are ostensibly replying to. A person who is NOT responsible for something, regardless, being held responsible and punished is not justice. It's injustice.
The one most wronged by every sinful act is God, without exception. He in order to justify the sinner paid the price in full Himself. Those who reject the divinity of Christ suggest that Christ another created being was made to be killed for others. I believe that would be a great injustice.
11 Jan 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidNothing about needs updating, science does not scripture.
I think you project here an outdated form of Christianity that needs a serious upgrade.
11 Jan 22
@fmf saidThe one wronged settles the wrongs done, to His satisfaction.
Yes, I know the dogma. But in your single-minded desire to simply recite it, you don't seem to be reading what you are ostensibly replying to. A person who is NOT responsible for something, regardless, being held responsible and punished is not justice. It's injustice.
11 Jan 22
@kellyjay saidHey Buddy. So where is it ever said that Jehovah made Jesus do what he did?
How could God condemn one and forgive another justly, if a human judge forgave those he liked and condemned those he didn’t is that justice? In order for justice to be done all crimes had to be settled completely and God personally paid the debt we owed Himself. Those who say Jesus is not God assume that is exactly what God did, that God made Jesus and made Him do it.
11 Jan 22
@c-j-horse saidYou've kind of answered by the description you just posted here.
Why couldn't a supposedly omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God just have forgiven the human race for its failings? It seems to represent a big hole in the argument.
Job 26:14 "Look! These are just the fringes of his ways;
Only a faint whisper has been heard of him!
So who can understand his mighty thunder?”
Jehovah's perfect wisdom if far beyond ours. He has a perfect scale that he uses. One needs to remember too that all the spirit creatures that he had created over eons of time were now watching this issue. If Jehovah had gone easy on those two earthly creations, what problems and issues would that have now created for all life either spiritual or physical? Once you break a perfect standard that has always been you cannot go back.
11 Jan 22
@galveston75 saidI don’t believe Jesus is a created being, so God did not make Him to kill Him. Jesus the Word of God made flesh was sent by the Father because of the love of God for us. To suggest Jesus was created, is to suggest God simply made someone who He called Son just to kill Him for someone else.
Hey Buddy. So where is it ever said that Jehovah made Jesus do what he did?
@kellyjay saidI respect your opinion, but...... Nothing you just said makes any sense. Sorry.
I don’t believe Jesus is a created being, so God did not make Him to kill Him. Jesus the Word of God made flesh was sent by the Father because of the love of God for us. To suggest Jesus was created, is to suggest God simply made someone who He called Son just to kill Him for someone else.
When Jesus was created gazillions of years ago, man had not been created yet.
Jehovah did not know beforehand Adam was going to sin when he created him. If Jehovah knew that he was going to sin before hand, that changes all kinds of stuff, mostly that Jehovah probably would not created Adam period. He would have created another human that he knew would not sin. Make sense?
So seeing how Jesus was created gazillions of years before Adam, Noooooooo Jehovah did not create Jesus knowing that someday he would TELL his son Jesus to do what he did for mankind.
So where is this scripture where Jehovah (((tells)))) Jesus to go to earth to die?
PS. "god cannot die".
11 Jan 22
@galveston75 saidShow me the verse that says gazillions of years ago; God created His Word! No, the scripture is clear all things were created through Him; this cannot be true if He had to be created. The Word of God, 'and God said' created everything without exception.
I respect your opinion, but...... Nothing you just said makes any sense. Sorry.
When Jesus was created gazillions of years ago, man had not been created yet.
Jehovah did not know beforehand Adam was going to sin when he created him. If Jehovah knew that he was going to sin before hand, that changes all kinds of stuff, mostly that Jehovah probably would not created A ...[text shortened]... e is this scripture where Jehovah (((tells)))) Jesus to go to earth to die?
PS. "god cannot die".
The Word of God became a man, and men can die.
John 1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
A few verses later, same chapter.
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Looking at Colossians 1, I've seen you use these verses before. The very image of the invisible God, all things were created through Him as we have seen elsewhere nothing was created without Him, all were created for Him, He is the preeminent one in all God has done. Difficult to maintain Jesus was a created being when nothing was made without Him, and everything made was made for Him.
Colossians 1
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
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@galveston75
So when the prophet Micah says that the One who is to be Ruler in Israel is from days of eternity, he is wrong ?
"From you [Bethlehem Ephrathah] there will come forth to Me He who is to be Ruler in Israel; And His goings forth are from ancient times, From the days of eternity." (See Micah 5:2)
This is wrong Galveston because the Messiah is not from eternity ?
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11 Jan 22
@c-j-horse saidMaybe God was just a sicko who wanted some of His Son's blood for His barbie sauce.
Why couldn't a supposedly omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God just have forgiven the human race for its failings? It seems to represent a big hole in the argument.
12 Jan 22
@kellyjay saidIs this the same Jesus who is described in Revelation as the Lamb, the one who is overseeing the eternal burning alive of those whom he loved so much that he came and died for?
Jesus the Word of God made flesh was sent by the Father because of the love of God for us.
12 Jan 22
@divegeester saidHe will be our judge, and when we stand before Him, who do you think is going to say, 'Depart from me I never knew you?' who is going to have the condemned cast into the lake of fire. Those that wronged Him, those that wronged those He died for, those that denied Him are going to be the ones standing before Him, all judgment is given to the Son, who is the Son?
Is this the same Jesus who is described in Revelation as the Lamb, the one who is overseeing the eternal burning alive of those whom he loved so much that he came and died for?
Revelation 6:15-17
English Standard Version
Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”
Matthew 7
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Matthew 13
Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
You think God is playing around with sin and His Kingdom; those He died for are all of us, those that reject Him do so to their damnation. Jesus is the Son of man, or do you think another is? What does He do? He has those that deserve it due to the evil they have done thrown into the fiery furnace? He came for those He died for but did they all receive Him? No.