1. Subscriberdivegeester
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    22 Oct '11 19:161 edit
    John 8 : 58-59
    “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

    Why did those listening want to stone him? Seems pretty harsh, what was Jesus saying that would cause people to want to murder him? All he said was "before Abraham was - I AM"

    Thoughts...
  2. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    22 Oct '11 19:26
    Maybe they wanted to execute him for blasphemy.
  3. Subscriberdivegeester
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    22 Oct '11 19:301 edit
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Maybe they wanted to execute him for blasphemy.
    Yes. I'm of course being slightly oblique with the OP in that there are those here who claim that what he said has been either misinterpreted or mistranslated and doesn't actually state that Jesus was declaring himself - God almighty.

    The point is, that if he wasn't saying that then what were those listening so upset about that they were they going to stone him.
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    22 Oct '11 20:141 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Yes. I'm of course being slightly oblique with the OP in that there are those here who claim that what he said has been either misinterpreted or mistranslated and doesn't actually state that Jesus was declaring himself - God almighty.

    The point is, that if he wasn't saying that then what were those listening so upset about that they were they going to stone him.
    sorry uninterested in your dogma, make reference to the Greek text, otherwise we
    shall conclude you have no idea what the text actually says.
  5. Subscriberdivegeester
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    22 Oct '11 20:23
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    sorry uninterested in your dogma, make reference to the Greek text, otherwise we
    shall conclude you have no idea what the text actually says.
    Are you saying that the Bible is also wrong (mistranslated) in that the people listening did not want to stone him?
  6. Subscriberdivegeester
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    22 Oct '11 20:24
    PS: shut-up about "dogma" dude - we all have our beliefs and reasons - either debate or zip it.
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    22 Oct '11 20:26
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    sorry uninterested in your dogma, make reference to the Greek text, otherwise we
    shall conclude you have no idea what the text actually says.
    Why do you always want to reference the Greek text like you are a professional translator? You aren't even well enough versed in English to translate from Greek to English with the skill needed to argue what the text says(no offense.)

    Stick to arguing what you know because I doubt if the scripture really differs much from translations done by lingual scholars who would know the actual meaning in context and not just one word hiccups. You can't translate word for word from Greek to English.

    Conclusion: One or two words being different, out of context, is hardly a basis for an argument.


    Just shedding my perspective... one not coming from dogma.
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    22 Oct '11 20:28
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Are you saying that the Bible is also wrong (mistranslated) in that the people listening did not want to stone him?
    I am saying that i am uninterested in a theological premise for making assumptions
    about the text, i am interested in what the text actually states. Yes i believe that the
    phrase 'I AM', and any significance attributed to it is the result of religious dogma and
    bias in translation.
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    22 Oct '11 20:322 edits
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    Why do you always want to reference the Greek text like you are a professional translator? You aren't even well enough versed in English to translate from Greek to English with the skill needed to argue what the text says(no offense.)

    Stick to arguing what you know because I doubt if the scripture really differs much from translations done by lingual sc ardly a basis for an argument.


    Just shedding my perspective... one not coming from dogma.
    So now you are telling me what i know and what i do not know? Look, I can read
    Greek, I can read English, i understand Greek construct, i understand English
    construct, do you? no? well no offence, but you dont know what you are talking
    about. The rest of your text tells me that you dont know what you are talking about
    because if you did, you would have made reference to the Greek text and you haven't.
    I have studied it, in depth, you have not, your opinions are irrelevant. No offence,
    just saying, your perspective is one of ignorance, as is self evident from your text.

    for example

    Conclusion: One or two words being different, out of context, is hardly a basis for an
    argument.

    what are you talking about? what words are out of context? what has context even
    got to do with it?
  10. Subscriberdivegeester
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    22 Oct '11 20:33
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I am saying that i am uninterested in a theological premise for making assumptions
    about the text, i am interested in what the text actually states. Yes i believe that the
    phrase 'I AM', and any significance attributed to it is the result of religious dogma and
    bias in translation.
    Suit yourself - why bother to post then.

    The Bible tells us a story, an account of what happened, you should consider the text within the context of the story and what is going on in the streets of Jerusalem.

    I think it's clear you are the one with the "dogma" issue my friend.
  11. Subscriberdivegeester
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    22 Oct '11 20:35
    Please can I ask that we stick to the thread:

    Why were the people on the streets of Jerusalem picking up stones to stone Jesus for saying "before Abraham was, I AM"?
  12. Donationbbarr
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    22 Oct '11 20:37
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    Why do you always want to reference the Greek text like you are a professional translator? You aren't even well enough versed in English to translate from Greek to English with the skill needed to argue what the text says(no offense.)

    Stick to arguing what you know because I doubt if the scripture really differs much from translations done by lingual sc ...[text shortened]... ardly a basis for an argument.


    Just shedding my perspective... one not coming from dogma.
    Wait, so you're claiming that an in-depth understanding of a text and it's meaning does not require knowing what the text originally, actually said? Yikes!
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    22 Oct '11 20:401 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Suit yourself - why bother to post then.

    The Bible tells us a story, an account of what happened, you should consider the text within the context of the story and what is going on in the streets of Jerusalem.

    I think it's clear you are the one with the "dogma" issue my friend.
    Your absolutely correct, why bother, but then again, i only know what the text says, i dont
    need to 'feel', the words, i can use my mind to reason, i dont need to take it upon trust
    that the translation is accurate, i can just merrily go along in blissful ignorance, i dont
    need to substantiate my arguments linguistically or textually, i have my dogma to
    make arguments based on inaccurate translation, for me. Your absolutely correct, why
    bother.
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    22 Oct '11 20:44
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Please can I ask that we stick to the thread:

    Why were the people on the streets of Jerusalem picking up stones to stone Jesus for saying "before Abraham was, I AM"?
    before Abraham was, I AM

    Please can we use grammatically correct English. It would be a good place to begin.
  15. Subscriberdivegeester
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    22 Oct '11 20:44
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Your absolutely correct, why bother, but then again, i only know what the text says, i dont
    need to 'feel', the words, i can use my mind to reason, i dont need to take it upon trust
    that the translation is accurate, i can just merrily go along in blissful ignorance, i dont
    need to substantiate my arguments linguistically or textually, i have my ...[text shortened]... ake arguments based on inaccurate translation, for me. Your absolutely correct, why
    bother.
    I'm not asking you to "feel the words", I'm asking you a simple question robbie:

    Why were the people on the streets of Jerusalem picking up stones to stone Jesus for saying "before Abraham was, I AM"?
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