Originally posted by thesonofsaulSee my "define God" thread so that I am clear what you are claiming to exist.
Undermined? How? By telling me that God and the soul don't exist? That makes no sense. Could you undermine a marriage by telling the husband and wife that love doesn't exist? Of course not.
You tell me that God does not exist and expect it to have some sort of earth shattering effect. This is no different than a Xian telling you that Christ die ...[text shortened]... ling it that it has no foundation and therefore should fall over. Were you there at Jericho?
Originally posted by thesonofsaulEvil is human.
Evil is human. Can animals be evil? We bring it all upon ourselves in our striving to become, not like God, but equal and indepenent to God. The need for justice goes hand and hand with this--if you percieve that you see a difference in things that you can call good (acceptable) and evil (unacceptable) then of course you see yourself as the elite arb ...[text shortened]... ven if there is no God--an ideal doesn't have to physically exist for us to strive to match it.
How would you reconcile this with your claim that the Word is found everywhere -- even in human evil? Or is the Word not necessarily from God?
We bring it all upon ourselves in our striving to become, not like God, but equal and indepenent to God.
So you define evil as a form of idolatry, perhaps? By what criteria do we define what is like God, and what is equal and independent to God? Can humans inherently discern Truth from truth?
This all works even if there is no God--an ideal doesn't have to physically exist for us to strive to match it.
True, although it needs to exist in concept; hypothetically if you wish.
Originally posted by HalitoseYou enjoy the word "reconcile," don't you? Human evil is based in our percieved seperation from God. We simultaneously see ourselves as lesser than and potentially equal to God. There is only idol worship if we ourselves are the idols--or, if you prefer, if humanity itself is the idol.
[b]Evil is human.
How would you reconcile this with your claim that the Word is found everywhere -- even in human evil? Or is the Word not necessarily from God?
We bring it all upon ourselves in our striving to become, not like God, but equal and indepenent to God.
So you define evil as a form of idolatry, perhaps? By what criteria do we ...[text shortened]... ve to match it.[/b]
True, although it needs to exist in concept; hypothetically if you wish.[/b]
The Word is certainly always from God, only we lack the capacity to understand it. We make up our own songs and pretend, very convincingly, that our songs are the songs of angels. We're also very easily distracted. Sort of like spiritual ADD.
I certainly believe that we can "inherently discern Truth from truth" as you put it, if for no other reason that otherwise it would all be pointless. If we could not tell what was holy, then any nut job with a Council (see crack about Nicene made by someone earlier in the thread) and decide for us what was holy and what wasn't, what was the Word and what was merely, the word. After all, if we can't tell the difference, anything that we are told to be holy could go either way. If this was the case, we might as well believe the prettiest senario, because we're all doomed anyway and we might as well go down smiling.
I typed this all out very fast, so it will probably need clarifying. I will try my best to answer any points later on in the day when I actually have time.
Originally posted by thesonofsaulYou enjoy the word "reconcile," don't you?
You enjoy the word "reconcile," don't you? Human evil is based in our percieved seperation from God. We simultaneously see ourselves as lesser than and potentially equal to God. There is only idol worship if we ourselves are the idols--or, if you prefer, if humanity itself is the idol.
The Word is certainly always from God, only we lack the ...[text shortened]... I will try my best to answer any points later on in the day when I actually have time.
😀 I have lately found my theology to be a in need of some reconciliation between dogma and reality -- so I'm seeing if yours can pass that acid test.
Human evil is based in our percieved seperation from God. We simultaneously see ourselves as lesser than and potentially equal to God. There is only idol worship if we ourselves are the idols--or, if you prefer, if humanity itself is the idol.
Okay. So it wouldn't be evil if I elevated... say the concepts of "pleasure", "happiness" or even "pain" to a level equal with God?
The Word is certainly always from God, only we lack the capacity to understand it. We make up our own songs and pretend, very convincingly, that our songs are the songs of angels. We're also very easily distracted.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this imply that the Word cannot be everywhere (contrary to the assertion you made in your opening post of this thread)?
I certainly believe that we can "inherently discern Truth from truth" as you put it, if for no other reason that otherwise it would all be pointless.
My sentiments exactly.
I will try my best to answer any points later on in the day when I actually have time.
Looking forward to it.
While we're at it... what's your view on free will?
Originally posted by thesonofsaulYou want takers? Start applying your beliefs to things and ideas that
No takers? Come on. Would it help if I said that I really wouldn't mind if everyone thought the same way I do?
other people hold dear, you will soon find yourself wondering why you
asked for the abuse.
Kelly
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Originally posted by HalitoseI'd like to see if it passes as well. I've never actually written it all down--it just sorts of floats around in my head in a flood of inattention and brief flashes of insight.
[b]You enjoy the word "reconcile," don't you?
😀 I have lately found my theology to be a in need of some reconciliation between dogma and reality -- so I'm seeing if yours can pass that acid test.
Human evil is based in our percieved seperation from God. We simultaneously see ourselves as lesser than and potentially equal to God ooking forward to it.
While we're at it... what's your view on free will?[/b]
Okay. So it wouldn't be evil if I elevated... say the concepts of "pleasure", "happiness" or even "pain" to a level equal with God?
I wouldn't say that. Humans, as far as I can tell, are incapable of raising anything up to the level of God. We only think we can, and therein lies the trouble.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this imply that the Word cannot be everywhere (contrary to the assertion you made in your opening post of this thread)?
No the Word is still everywhere, we just lack the ability to hear it, so we put our own mask on it. We cover up, or try to cover up, that which suggests how little and lost we all are. But as the Word is indeed everywhere it can sometimes seep through our masks and give us a glimpse of glory. This is how you can even find the Word in church, miracle of miracles.
My view on free will. Philosophically, I quite gleefully march into the room and announce that there is no free will, that it makes no sense for decisions to appear out of nowhere. Yet, at the same time, I will just as heartily defend my own free will, as I could never admit that my desisions and thoughts are not purely my own. Sometimes I think that this is just how we are wired. Very convoluted.
Originally posted by thesonofsaulI wouldn't say that. Humans, as far as I can tell, are incapable of raising anything up to the level of God. We only think we can, and therein lies the trouble.
I'd like to see if it passes as well. I've never actually written it all down--it just sorts of floats around in my head in a flood of inattention and brief flashes of insight.
[b]Okay. So it wouldn't be evil if I elevated... say the concepts of "pleasure", "happiness" or even "pain" to a level equal with God?
I wouldn't say that. Humans, as ...[text shortened]... rely my own. Sometimes I think that this is just how we are wired. Very convoluted.[/b]
Okay. But lets say this is a hypothetical attempt to elevate something non-God or even only a certain aspect of God to a level of worship?
One more question: How do define human purpose? Or would you say that is the point of life -- to identify what our purpose is?
Originally posted by thesonofsaulwhy do you want to be insulted so desperately? Is it some romantic idea of being persecuted for your faith? Do you think that if you get ripped on more for being a christian it will make you feel like you actually believe passionately in something? Or are you just trying to convince yourself that you're some kind of petty christ-like figure?
I come into this forum once and a while (more and more rarely as time goes on) and I see a lot of athiets bashing, a lot of mud slinging at Christians. However, I recall, back when I actually posted in this forum consistantly, that I offered up my belief structure several times but no one ever ripped on it. No one ever tried to insult me because of wh ...[text shortened]... ways.
I think that covers it all in brief. So come on. Insult me. I want to be included.
Originally posted by BromageIf you had read his first post carefully, you'd notice that he isn't a Christian, but rather a theist.
why do you want to be insulted so desperately? Is it some romantic idea of being persecuted for your faith? Do you think that if you get ripped on more for being a christian it will make you feel like you actually believe passionately in something? Or are you just trying to convince yourself that you're some kind of petty christ-like figure?
Originally posted by HalitoseAs the attempt cannot reach the level of God, the attempt to spurn God in this way (I'm just as good if not better than you are) can only lead to evil. There really is no escaping it--this is probably why the promises of salvation and forgiveness of sins made by Christianity are so attractive. We all feel this inescapable evil made by our pride and arrogance. I find that the best way to battle it is to merely be aware of it (harder than it seems).
[b]I wouldn't say that. Humans, as far as I can tell, are incapable of raising anything up to the level of God. We only think we can, and therein lies the trouble.
Okay. But lets say this is a hypothetical attempt to elevate something non-God or even only a certain aspect of God to a level of worship?
One more question: How do define human purpose? Or would you say that is the point of life -- to identify what our purpose is?[/b]
As for your last question, I cannot define human purpose. I simply have no idea. Must there be a purpose? I think I put that in the hands of God, for if there is a purpose, He's in charge of it. Also, to try to answer that question stinks of the arrogance mentioned earlier.
P.S. Sorry I took so long to respond in this thread. As I seem to posess most if not all of the characteristics of ADD, I simply forgot the thread existed, and then remembered it at a strange and seemingly uninspired instance.
Originally posted by thesonofsaul"I simply have no idea."
As the attempt cannot reach the level of God, the attempt to spurn God in this way (I'm just as good if not better than you are) can only lead to evil. There really is no escaping it--this is probably why the promises of salvation and forgiveness of sins made by Christianity are so attractive. We all feel this inescapable evil made by our pride and ar ...[text shortened]... got the thread existed, and then remembered it at a strange and seemingly uninspired instance.
Never a truer word spaketh, Sonofabitch; never a truer work spaketh.
Originally posted by howardgeeYou should try it sometime, howardPee. Now go away--you add nothing to honest discussion with your constant antagonizing. You know just as little as I do--the sooner you admit it the sooner you stop giving people headaches.
"I simply have no idea."
Never a truer word spaketh, Sonofabitch; never a truer work spaketh.
Originally posted by thesonofsaulI assure you that I understand more than you could ever comprehend.
You should try it sometime, howardPee. Now go away--you add nothing to honest discussion with your constant antagonizing. You know just as little as I do--the sooner you admit it the sooner you stop giving people headaches.
I am not surprised you have headaches...such a small brain must be under constant strain.
Why did you break your promise of not discussing things further?