Why Is God holding us back?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Was the Tower of Babel Obama's fault Whodey?

If you want your tower, you can keep your tower.

😵

Originally posted by Dasa
Spiritual truth is not to be debated and argued with........... by delusional mental speculators.

Instead: the delusional mental speculators must with great sincerity and honesty, become willing to research in depth the knowledge that is available from true religion.

No amount of speculation can come even close to the truth of your existence.

So far ...[text shortened]... heistic scientist should go and get some slime and create life..........(one little ant will do)

Have you heard any of the lectures of the Indian Christian Ravi Zacharias ?

I would invite you to go to YouTube and look up the name Ravi Zacharias brought up Hindi, and hear some of his talks.

samples:

Is the Quran Accurate ? Ravi Zacharias explains.

YouTube

The Difference between the Bible and the Quran in 1 Minute

YouTube

Why Jesus ? (speaks much about Hinduism here)

YouTube

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Is God, or even the idea of God, holding us back as a species?

'But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will no ...[text shortened]... is the mere idea of him making us lazy as a species, damaging our progress and independent thinking?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
"Is God, or even the idea of God, holding us back as a species?"

Interesting question seldom if ever posed here before. May I ask which possible answers you've already considered?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Is God, or even the idea of God, holding us back as a species?

'But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will ...[text shortened]... he mere idea of him making us lazy as a species, damaging our progress and independent thinking?

"God" is simply That Which Seems Ominous.

The idea that everyone spoke the same language and behaved as a global community was too ominous for the people of the time. They reverted back to their habitual tribal-think, cherishing the things that made them different from others, unable to let those things go. This remains an issue today. We have trouble distributing the world's resources equally among ourselves, and we still think of our own local cultures/countries/nations as 'better' than others.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
"God" is simply That Which Seems Ominous.

The idea that everyone spoke the same language and behaved as a global community was too ominous for the people of the time. They reverted back to their habitual tribal-think, cherishing the things that made them different from others, unable to let those things go. This remains an issue today. We have trou ...[text shortened]... rselves, and we still think of our own local cultures/countries/nations as 'better' than others.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
"God" is simply That Which Seems Ominous."

On which authoritative source and/or rational decision process do you base the dogmatism of this conclusion?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
"God" is simply That Which Seems Ominous."

On which authoritative source and/or rational decision process do you base the dogmatism of this conclusion?

It's my own personal viewpoint. Take it, or leave it. It does not bother me either way.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
"Is God, or even the idea of God, holding us back as a species?"

Interesting question seldom if ever posed here before. May I ask which possible answers you've already considered?

Well, I was aware of the usual explanations for Gen 11, that man was getting too big for his boots etc, trying to be like God; that God's action to disperse and confuse man was ultimately for our own good.

However, as BigDoggproblem inferred, dividing and confusing man may have caused more problems than it solved. Division has led to imbalance, with some people having nothing and some an abundance. Different languages has led to mistrust, misunderstandings and ultimately war and destruction. Perhaps mankind is stronger and 'better' when it is unified, when it isn't confused and fragmented. If God himself recognised that we were capable of the impossible, why, i ask myself, would he rather see us divided and weakened? Surely he would wish to see his creation reach its full potential?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Well, I was aware of the usual explanations for Gen 11, that man was getting too big for his boots etc, trying to be like God; that God's action to disperse and confuse man was ultimately for our own good.

However, as BigDoggproblem inferred, dividing and confusing man may have caused more problems than it solved. Division has led to imbalance, ...[text shortened]... see us divided and weakened? Surely he would wish to see his creation reach its full potential?

The tower in Genesis 11 was intended to live without God.
Man left to his own without God is unknowingly submitting himself to the god of this world who is Satan. The end is heartache, oppression, lawlessness, and eventually total destruction.
Since the spirit world is invisible, man can only see the results of the ongoing spiritual battle.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
The tower in Genesis 11 was intended to live without God.
Man left to his own without God is unknowingly submitting himself to the god of this world who is Satan. The end is heartache, oppression, lawlessness, and eventually total destruction.
Since the spirit world is invisible, man can only see the results of the ongoing spiritual battle.

“Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

Can you explain how the above equates to 'living without God.'

Thanks.

BigDoggProblem (Page 3)
"It's my own personal viewpoint. Take it, or leave it. It does not bother me either way."

and

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke (Page 3)
"Well, I was aware of the usual explanations for Gen 11, that man was getting too big for his boots etc, trying to be like God; that God's action to disperse and confuse man was ultimately for our own good.

However, as BigDoggproblem inferred, dividing and confusing man may have caused more problems than it solved. Division has led to imbalance, with some people having nothing and some an abundance. Different languages has led to mistrust, misunderstandings and ultimately war and destruction. Perhaps mankind is stronger and 'better' when it is unified, when it isn't confused and fragmented. If God himself recognised that we were capable of the impossible, why, i ask myself, would he rather see us divided and weakened? Surely he would wish to see his creation reach its full potential?"

.... would any of the four categorical definitions below apply to your own beliefs and/or disbeliefs within the spiritual realm?

@googlefudge: "Vos existimantur cogitare, Antequam vos infringere regulas.

If you believe in a god or gods and claim to know it or they exist then you're a "gnostic theist".

If you believe in a god or gods and don't know if it or they exist then you're an "agnostic theist".

If you don't believe in a god or gods and don't know if it or they exist then you're an "agnostic atheist".

If you don't believe in a god or gods and claim to know if it or they doesn't exist then you're a "gnostic atheist".

http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/09/25/8419/

In general I am an agnostic atheist, but I am a gnostic atheist with respect to some/many proposed gods....

But this tells you almost nothing about me as my atheism is a result of my beliefs and values and is not the
source of them.

It is a statement of the absence of belief based on blind irrational faith.

http://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/what-is-atheism

http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/atheistdefine.html

http://atheistexperience.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/matts-superiority-of-secular-morality.html

YouTube&feature=channel_video_title

http://yudkowsky.net/rational/bayes

http://lesswrong.com/lw/1to/what_is_bayesianism/

http://oscarbonilla.com/2009/05/visualizing-bayes-theorem/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_probability"

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
“Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

Can you explain how the above equates to 'living without God.'

Thanks.

Actually, the purpose of the tower was to provide a
common religious center as a rallying point, lest the
people be scattered. The builders of the tower were in
open defiance of God's command (Genesis 9:1) (53).

In the ninth chapter of Genesis, God commands Noah and his sons
to "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth" (9:1 NAS). On the
fifth day of the creation of the Earth, God gave this command to the
birds and fishes (Gen. 1:20-23). On the sixth day, God reiterated
this command to the pinnacles of creation, man and woman (Gen.
1:26-28). Humanity was to subjugate the untamed Earth by dispersing
themselves.

The builders in Shinar banded together for a common ecumenical
purpose. Genesis 11:6 suggests that this assembly would have given
rise to projects of a purely secular nature. The people did not
consider that their misguided enthusiasm may have been just a bit
shortsighted. Considering the benevolent, omniscient knowledge of
God it appears that the long-term consequences of the Tower of Babel
might have resulted in a plight similar to the apostate state of
humanity (Gen. 6:1-5) prior to the sanctifying flood of the entire
Earth (Gen. 6:6-24).

http://www.tribulation.com/prt_towr.htm

Another example after close study...
To build, the people used brick instead of stone and tar instead of mortar. They used "man-made" materials, instead of more durable "God-made" materials. The people were building a monument to themselves, to call attention to their own abilities and achievements, instead of giving glory to God.

Originally posted by checkbaiter

Another example after close study...
To build, the people used brick instead of stone and tar instead of mortar. They used "man-made" materials, instead of more durable "God-made" materials. The people were building a monument to themselves, to call attention to their own abilities and achievements, instead of giving glory to God.[/b]

Understood, but this kinda links in to my opening question. Is 'giving glory to God' to the detriment of our own species? What had God to 'fear' of humanity calling 'attention to their own abilities and achievements,' of reaching for the stars, of attaining 'the impossible?'

It's like a gardener lovingly growing a flower, only to lob it's head off when he thinks it is pushing too high and has become aware of it's own beauty, it's own potential to grow.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Understood, but this kinda links in to my opening question. Is 'giving glory to God' to the detriment of our own species? What had God to 'fear' of humanity calling 'attention to their own abilities and achievements,' of reaching for the stars, of attaining 'the impossible?'

It's like a gardener lovingly growing a flower, only to lob it's head of ...[text shortened]... inks it is pushing too high and has become aware of it's own beauty, it's own potential to grow.

You are looking at this question from a human perspective. It is not just God who has an interest in humans.

1 John 5:19
We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
NKJV

If man is left to his own, apart from God, there is the god of this world to contend with on their own. It is not a fair match.
Also, left on his own here is what happens to man....

Jeremiah 17:9New International Version (NIV)

9
The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?

Other versions say incurably sick.

So while man may progress in Technology, and they have, the problem has always been a problem of the heart.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
You are looking at this question from a human perspective. It is not just God who has an interest in humans.

1 John 5:19
We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
NKJV

If man is left to his own, apart from God, there is the god of this world to contend with on their own. It is not a fair ...[text shortened]... n may progress in Technology, and they have, the problem has always been a problem of the heart.

"Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified; do not be discouraged, for the LORD your God will be with you wherever you go." (Joshua 1:9).

Why should we fear venturing into the darkness when God is with us?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
"Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified; do not be discouraged, for the LORD your God will be with you wherever you go." (Joshua 1:9).

Why should we fear venturing into the darkness when God is with us?

That verse is speaking to a man of God. It can also apply to Christians.

Heb 13:5-6
For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you." 6 So we may boldly say:

"The Lord is my helper;
I will not fear.
What can man do to me?"
NKJV

But this does not apply to people that want nothing to do with God. The people we are speaking of at the Tower of Babel wanted to go their own way.