1. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    22 Jul '15 18:10
    Is God, or even the idea of God, holding us back as a species?

    'But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” (Gen 11).

    Why was God so keen to prevent mankind from being united, from reaching it's full potential? Why was it necessary for him to actively confuse mankind, stop us from achieving the impossible? (Which he seems to believe we are capable of).

    And even if God doesn't exist, is the mere idea of him making us lazy as a species, damaging our progress and independent thinking?
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    22 Jul '15 18:331 edit
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    Is God, or even the idea of God, holding us back as a species?

    'But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will ...[text shortened]... he mere idea of him making us lazy as a species, damaging our progress and independent thinking?
    Is God, or even the idea of God, holding us back as a species?
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I think in a negative sense we should be glad that God is holding us back from becoming completely wild in wickedness. Something is restraining the complete lawlessness of society,

    There is a restraining power keeping us all from total anarchy which is knocking at the door, harder and harder.

    As for technology, I think we give God less credit than He deserves. The timing of man's accumlation of knowledge, I think, advances both the Gospel and increases the awareness of Divine creation.




    'But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” (Gen 11).

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Good example of God holding man back. I use to wonder why myself. He said now nothing that they do will be impossible for them.

    I think the things done by a harmonious collective though would end up being very evil. Anything replacing God can only end up being very evil eventually.

    But the example you point to - the Tower of Babel, is excellent. My feeling is that most people would share the viewpoint that it seemed like a good thing that God should not have interfered with.

    Upon having more insight and more experience, we learn that this represented a further point of degradation to mankind. At this lowest point of man's fall from God, God calls out Abraham to initiate "the called race".

    The created race headed by Adam had fallen to its lowest point in the building of the Tower of Babel. At this low point God, for the sake of saving the world and saving the Adamic race initiated a new race - the called race headed by Abraham.



    Why was God so keen to prevent mankind from being united, from reaching it's full potential? Why was it necessary for him to actively confuse mankind, stop us from achieving the impossible? (Which he seems to believe we are capable of).

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'll write more on this latter.


    And even if God doesn't exist, is the mere idea of him making us lazy as a species, damaging our progress and independent thinking?

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I would draw your attention the the concluding chapters of the whole Bible. You have something there which is like the Tower of Babel but it is called the holy city, the bride of Christ, the tabernacle of God.

    You have in Revelation 21 and 22 a mountain of pure gold as a sign. You have a golden mountain of transparent gold as clear as crystal. It is a city / mountain. The transparency of the gold means that man become transparent in manifesting the indwelling God of glory living now within.

    The symbolism is that there God and man are united, mingled, organically joined as one. This is the reality of what man sought apart from God. With Christ's salvation a golden mountain city expressing the harmony of God and man for eternity is the climax of human history.

    The Tower of Babel was man's attempt to imitate the ultimate will of God. And thought WE may not appreciate it, God in His wisdom foresaw that its construction would only mean an evil counterfeit of His eternal purpose.

    That is my take on it.
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    22 Jul '15 18:35
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    Is God, or even the idea of God, holding us back as a species?

    'But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will ...[text shortened]... he mere idea of him making us lazy as a species, damaging our progress and independent thinking?
    Great question. Don't have an answer but will give it a bit of thought.
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    22 Jul '15 18:361 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” (Gen 11).
    I would like to know if, according the trinitarian's arguments about the godhead, all three people in the trinity "came down" or did two of them delegate it to the third?
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    22 Jul '15 19:351 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I would like to know if, according the trinitarian's arguments about the godhead, all three people in the trinity "came down" or did two of them delegate it to the third?
    I would like to know if, according the trinitarian's arguments about the godhead, all three people in the trinity "came down" or did two of them delegate it to the third?
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The phrase "three people" I would not use.
    If I had to discuss it I might say "three ______". That is because human language is limited in speaking of this very mysterious matter.

    Even "Persons" I take as a cautiously borrowed expression. Stressing "three Persons" too far would give a concept of Tritheism - three gods.

    "Three People" has even more of a tendency to confuse. So I would say perhaps "the Three".

    Regardless, the Bible does say that Jehovah came down and Jehovah said "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, ..." (v.7) Genesis 1:26; 3:22; and Isaiah 6:8 likewise speak of God saying "Us".

    I don't think He was speaking of Himself and angels.
    I don't think He was speaking in some "Royal We" sense.

    All I can say is that " Let Us " speaks of a divine council. Where anyone of the Three _________ is or doing, the other Two _________ are also deeply involved.
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    22 Jul '15 19:541 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    [b] I would like to know if, according the trinitarian's arguments about the godhead, all three people in the trinity "came down" or did two of them delegate it to the third?
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    The phrase "three people" I would not use.
    If I had to discuss it I might say "three ______ ...[text shortened]... ere anyone of the Three _________ is or doing, the other Two _________ are also deeply involved.[/b]
    I like your phrase "borrowed from". I think the concept of the trinity is "borrowed from" paganism. You may find that offensive (you have in the past) and I don't want to offend, but I speak from my own sincerity.
  7. Standard memberRJHinds
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    22 Jul '15 20:072 edits
    Originally posted by sonship
    [b] Is God, or even the idea of God, holding us back as a species?
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I think in a negative sense we should be glad that God is holding us back from becoming completely wild in wickedness. Something is restraining the complete lawlessness of society,

    There i ...[text shortened]... truction would only mean an evil counterfeit of His eternal purpose.

    That is my take on it.[/b]
    Here again we see the Lord commanding us to go down and confuse their language just as He did with the making of mankind. Yet at other places He takes full credit for doing it all alone and by Himself with no one to help Him. Seems like the Lord has a big ego at times. I AM .... ego ???
  8. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    22 Jul '15 20:26
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Here again we see the Lord commanding [b]us to go down and confuse their language just as He did with the making of mankind. Yet at other places He takes full credit for doing it all alone and by Himself with no one to help Him. Seems like the Lord has a big ego at times. I AM .... ego ???[/b]
    That's quite a surprising post, coming from you. Could you clarify a little?
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    22 Jul '15 20:324 edits
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I like your phrase "borrowed from". I think the concept of the trinity is "borrowed from" paganism. You may find that offensive (you have in the past) and I don't want to offend, but I speak from my own sincerity.
    I like your phrase "borrowed from". I think the concept of the trinity is "borrowed from" paganism.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Here again I might say - the trinity that you don't believe in is not the Trinity that I believe in.


    You may find that offensive (you have in the past) and I don't want to offend, but I speak from my own sincerity.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I don't think the human mind would concoct a God who is One and is simultaneously sending Himself, obeying Himself, etc.

    People cry "pagan" as a red flag. Frankly, I don't think any pagan who wanted to start a new religion would teach that God is something so perplexing as the Father - Son - Holy Spirit.

    Please don't go into Zeus, Osiris, Ra, and the so-called dying and rising gods. Please don't tell me that these are forerunners up to Matthew 28:19.
  10. Standard memberRJHinds
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    22 Jul '15 20:35
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    That's quite a surprising post, coming from you. Could you clarify a little?
    What should i claify? Perhaps you are referring to "ego" that is Greek for "I am" right?
  11. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    22 Jul '15 20:44
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    What should i claify? Perhaps you are referring to "ego" that is Greek for "I am" right?
    Perhaps it is the lateness of the hour, but sounded like you were being rather rude to God.

    Let's hope he is forgiving...
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    22 Jul '15 21:06
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    What should i claify? Perhaps you are referring to "ego" that is Greek for "I am" right?
    "Ego" is, in Latin, the singular nominative for the English "I".

    "Ego Sum" is Latin for "I am."

    In Greek εἰμί (eimi) is "I am."
  13. Standard memberKellyJay
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    23 Jul '15 03:34
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    Is God, or even the idea of God, holding us back as a species?

    'But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will ...[text shortened]... he mere idea of him making us lazy as a species, damaging our progress and independent thinking?
    If we are walking some place that would doom us, wouldn't you think God would want to
    stop us? God kicked us out of the garden because the tree of life was there, we could have
    eaten that in our fallen state.

    I think the things God has for us are far better than those we can come up with on our own.

    With respect to building God built this universe in six days, He has been working on the
    one we are going to for over six thousand years, and has told us that it has not even
    entered into the mind of man what He has coming for us next.

    I would assume that He has our best interest at heart, and we will more times than not
    would settle for what would harm us or others over that which is really good.
  14. Territories Unknown
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    23 Jul '15 04:29
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    Is God, or even the idea of God, holding us back as a species?

    'But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will ...[text shortened]... he mere idea of him making us lazy as a species, damaging our progress and independent thinking?
    The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them...
    After the Deluge, God gave protective orders: go forth, multiply and repopulate the earth.
    They were protective because He knew one people can be controlled by one ruler.
    Many people, divided, cultured are more difficult for one ruler to subdue.

    Sometimes the way out is the way in.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    23 Jul '15 06:24
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    Perhaps it is the lateness of the hour, but sounded like you were being rather rude to God.

    Let's hope he is forgiving...
    God is very forgiving. That is why i am still here to minister to you.

    HalleluYaH !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
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