Why Is God holding us back?

Originally posted by checkbaiter

The people we are speaking of at the Tower of Babel wanted to go their own way.

I think that still remains very much unproven.

Does a child proudly showing his father a picture he has painted and reveling in his progressing talent necessarily want to abandon his father and go his own way?

Witness Lee reviews the FOUR Falls of man in Genesis.

From Life Study of Genesis
http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n

1) Man's Fall from God's Presence
to Man's Conscience

The first level was that man fell from God's presence to man's conscience. This means that man fell from the divine government to self-government. According to Genesis 2, after God created man, He put him in front of Himself. Man was in God's presence, and there was nothing between God and man. There was no separation, hindrance, or frustration. Man was directly in the presence of God. In a very good and positive sense, man was directly governed by God's presence.

As we saw in message ten, God created man in three parts, with a spirit, a soul, and a body. The spirit was directly related to God's presence, the soul was under the direction of the human spirit, and the body was under the control of the soul. Originally, man's spirit was under God's presence, his soul was under his spirit, and his body was under his soul. That was the situation at the beginning. At the beginning, God's presence was the controlling essence. We may call this the divine government. Before the fall, the created, unfallen man was directly under this divine government. At that time man was not even controlled by something out of God. He was controlled directly by the presence of God.

At the beginning, man was under God's presence from which man fell firstly to man's own conscience. This matter of the conscience has been a problem to most students of the Bible, because no one has been able to determine whether or not God created a conscience for man at the time of man's creation. There is no record concerning this. As a result, many Bible students have thought that man had no conscience before man's first fall. But we have to believe that, from the very beginning, there was within man an element created by God which eventually turned out to be man's conscience. The element of the conscience was within man from the time of his creation, but the function of the conscience was not developed until the time of the fall, until the time when Adam and Eve partook of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and their eyes were opened. Immediately, when their eyes were opened, the element of their conscience began to function. God is sovereign. He has foresight. In His creation of man, God made provision for the conscience. The element of the conscience was present in man, but its function was not in use until man had been seduced by Satan and had fallen. At the time of that fall, the conscience began to function.

Consider the example of a burglar alarm. Although an alarm has been installed in a building, it does not function unless there is a burglary. If there is no burglary, the alarm does not function. But when there is a burglary, the alarm goes off immediately. This illustrates the element of conscience in man. It was installed in man at the time of his creation. It was built into the human building when God created man. But the conscience, which had been installed in man, had to wait for the time to function. That time was the time of man's first fall. When that fall transpired, the conscience began to function immediately, and Adam and Eve realized that they were naked (3:7). They felt ashamed. That was the beginning of the function of man's conscience.

http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n

2) Man's Fall from Man's Conscience
to Others' Control

Man did not remain very long under the government of his conscience. The first person to violate the rule of the conscience was Cain. Genesis 4 reveals that Cain was not shameful for lying and for murdering his brother, Abel. His lying to God about Abel's death was an open manifestation of his breaking of his conscience. He was arrogant and not at all ashamed about his sin. Since man violated his conscience, violence filled the earth before the time of the flood (6:11). As we saw in the previous message, before the flood there was no human government. It was only after the flood that God established a deputy authority. Man began to exercise God's authority to rule over others. That was the beginning of human government. Thus, secondly, man fell from self-government to human government.

In the first nine chapters of Genesis we see three kinds of government: the divine government, the government of the conscience, or self-government, and human government. All Bible students agree that these governments constitute three of God's dispensations, three of the ways in which God deals with the human race. The first dispensation was that of God's divine government, and the second was that of the government of man's own conscience. When man fell from the rule of his conscience, he came under the third dispensation, that of the human government.

I would like to say a word to the young people. We thank God that we are His creatures. As human beings, we are under Him and He is the real government above us. We also have a conscience that He has provided for us. This is a good thing. Moreover, we have many deputy authorities: the parents at home, the principals and teachers in the schools, and the government. All of these are the deputy authorities of God. By these three kinds of government the human race has been preserved. Although mankind has not been saved, it has been preserved by these three kinds of government. Humanly speaking, we all must have a fear of God, we all must listen to our conscience, and we all must respect God's deputy authority. We must respect our parents, the school administrators, and the government. God uses all the deputy authorities to maintain the human race so that He might fulfill His purpose. Never rebel against God, against the human conscience, or against human government.

God's salvation moves in a direction opposite to that of man's fall. Man fell firstly from God's presence to man's conscience; secondly, from man's conscience to human government; and eventually from human government to rebellion under Satan's instigation. In God's salvation we are firstly saved from rebellion to human government and from human government to the conscience. Eventually we are saved from conscience to God's presence in our spirit.

Continued from the Life Study of Genesis by Witness Lee.
[my emphasis]

http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n

3) Man's Fall from Human Government
to Satan's Instigation

The fall from self-government to human government, however, was not the final fall. Man fell even further than this, falling from human government to Satan's instigation. Human government was of God's authorization. But Satan utilized the authority which God gave man to form nations and to instigate a rebellion against God with the nations. Hence, man fell into an open rebellion against God. What is rebellion? Rebellion is the denial of right and authority. At the rebellion at Babel, man declared that he denied God's right and that he was absolutely free from God's authority. We see this in the world today. Some people say, "Who is God? What is God?" They cast off the feeling of their conscience and deny God's right and authority over them. This is exactly what happened at Babel. In that rebellion the human race cast away God's right and authority over man. Although there is a tendency along this line today, a part of the human race still is not for this. This is the reason that God is able to allow the human race to remain on earth. If the human race suddenly all became like man at Babel, God would have to say, "This is the time when I must come down to intervene." We have already seen that at the fall at Babel God personally intervened and judged that rebellion directly.

The fourth fall at Babel was more than a fall; it was a rebellion. That rebellion was a satanic instigation. The fourth fall was not a matter of immorality, murder, or violence. If you read the record concerning man's fourth fall in Genesis 11, you will find that it says nothing about immorality and violence being involved there. When I read this portion of the Bible as a young man, I did not think that it was so bad. I said to myself, "What was wrong for people to build a city and a high tower? It seems wonderful to me. Why did God have to come down to judge? There was no theft, murder, or immorality." At that time I did not see what was behind that rebellion. At the back of that rebellion was the satanic instigation. Thus, man's fourth fall must be called a rebellion. The question in that fall was not morality or immorality. It was a question as to who would have the right and the authority in the universe. Do the right and the authority belong to God or to man? They belong to God. He is the Creator, the owner of all. All right and authority must be His. At Babel, the creatures of God rebelled against Him, saying that they did not care for Him. They claimed that they were the owners, that authority was theirs, and that they would do whatever they wanted to do. Thus, that was not merely a fall, but a rebellion instigated by the rebellious Satan.

Firstly, man was under God; secondly, man was under man's conscience; and thirdly, man was under human government. Where was man at the time of Babel? He was under Satan's instigation. At that time man was altogether under Satan. Man collaborated with Satan. This brings us to the second factor of the cause of the fourth fall.

4) The Whole Human Being
Rising Up Collectively to Rebel against God

In the fourth fall man rose up collectively to rebel against God. His whole being was stirred up by Satan to rebel against God. If you consider your experience, you will find these four things within yourself. Sometimes we do not use our spirit and sometimes we go by the soul. At other times we are much worse, behaving ourselves according to the flesh. At other times the situation is even worse, for deep within us we may say, "I don't care for God." I believe that we have all said this. If we have not said it many times, at least we have said it a few times. I do not believe that there is anyone who has never said this. Although we might not have spoken these words outwardly, deep within we have said, "I don't care for God. He is too troublesome. I am a free person. I don't want to be bothered by God." Even after coming into the church life, there is still within you this sort of satanic instigation. This is the work of Satan to build up Babel in your being once again. Whenever you say that you do not care for God, it means that you intend to build a city and a tower. That is rebellion, the rebellion that comes from Satan's instigation.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Well, I was aware of the usual explanations for Gen 11, that man was getting too big for his boots etc, trying to be like God; that God's action to disperse and confuse man was ultimately for our own good.

However, as BigDoggproblem inferred, dividing and confusing man may have caused more problems than it solved. Division has led to imbalance, wit ...[text shortened]... ther see us divided and weakened? Surely he would wish to see his creation reach its full potential?

"Now the whole earth used the same language and the same words. It came about as they journeyed east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there. They said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks and burn them thoroughly.” And they used brick for stone, and they used tar for mortar. They said, “Come, let us build for ourselves a city, and a tower whose top will reach into heaven, and let us make for ourselves a name, otherwise we will be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.” The Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. The Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them. Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech.” So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of the whole earth; and they stopped building the city. Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of the whole earth; and from there the Lord scattered them abroad over the face of the whole earth." (Genesis 11:1-10)
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God provided for the perpetuation of mankind by having ordained the divine institutions of 1) volitional freedom; 2) marriage; 3) family; and 4) protection of the national entity through military victory. National entities with geographic boundaries [not internationalism] are designed to safeguard the human race from itself by providing a balance of power among many nations; internationalism attempts to concentrate power in the hands of a few whose power lust motivates them to rule as if they were God Himself. Internationalism with its promises of economic equality and world peace is Satanic because it purposes to contravene the Plan of God. These ancient plans to construct the Tower of Babel [origin from which the morphology of our words "babbel on" and "babbling fool" were eventually coined] were intended to achieve a focal point of power and concentrated evil. God interdicted these Satanically inspired plans by imposing a multiplicity of languages to replace the universal language, which prevented ability to communicate, by causing confusion at this construction site, and scattered them across the face of the earth. Stopping the erection of this tower of a one world state preserved "1) individual freedom".

There was no bigger problem for people then nor for us today than the loss of individual freedom and eventual bondage. All other problems pale to insignificance in comparison. The "full potential" of God's creation is achieved only when individual volition is free to choose its own life priorities in time and its personal destiny for eternal. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

Thanks to everyone for their replies. Interesting stuff.

Just a thought though, and based on what has been discussed, is 'learning another language' an unchristian act?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Thanks to everyone for their replies. Interesting stuff.

Just a thought though, and based on what has been discussed, is 'learning another language' an unchristian act?

No. Learn a new langiage, Make a friend.

What happened at Pentecost when people of various languages were gathered ? And the Holy Spirit came down to initiate the building of the church, the one new man in Jerusalem ?

Read the first couple of chapters of the book of Acts.

Originally posted by sonship
No. Learn a new langiage, Make a friend.

What happened at Pentecost when people of various languages were gathered ? And the Holy Spirit came down to initiate the building of the church, the one new man in Jerusalem ?

Read the first couple of chapters of the book of [b]Acts.[/b]

Hmm. So is Acts an intentional reversal of Genesis 11? (In that a gathering with the holy spirit is actively rewarded with a oneness of language, as opposed to a man inspired gathering which results in a confusion of languages?)

'But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” (Gen 11).

'Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language?' (Acts 2).

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke

Hmm. So is Acts an intentional reversal of Genesis 11? (In that a gathering with the holy spirit is actively rewarded with a oneness of language,
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God wanted to demonstrate that the good news of coming into salvation in Christ was universal, transcending all cultural and language barriers.

I suppose you could think of this as a reversal of sorts.
If He didn't come in with the miracle of tongue speaking to hear the Gospel, you might be the first to complain then also that God was not being universal enough.


as opposed to a man inspired gathering which results in a confusion of languages?)
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At Babel their was a collective rebellion.
At Pentecost there was the Good News of reconciliation to God through Jesus Christ given in many languages. You should be glad about this.

Rather than hunting for something to point out as a fault of God, you should be happy and thankful for His reaching out to all men.

'But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” (Gen 11).
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Yes, this was the FOURTH fall of man in Genesis. And to my surprise to, it could be considered the most serious one. But it must be so because the final Antichrist orchestrates a collective rebellion which draws the age to a close.

So, God has beforehand, indicated already how things will develop on earth in relation to His coming kingdom.

There is something in the prophecies concerning the millennial age about one language. But I do not want to get into that now.
Concerning the coming age, many details are just the tip of the iceberg. We don't know that much.

We do know that Jesus Christ and His overcoming saints will reign. And the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of God as the waters cover the sea.


'Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language?' (Acts 2).
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Originally posted by sonship

Rather than hunting for something to point out as a fault of God, you should be happy and thankful for His reaching out to all men.

On this occasion at least, i was not looking for a fault in God, but just interested in the contrast between Genesis and Acts in regards to language barriers.

Thanks though for your comments.

Speaking in tongues is one of the manifestations of the spirit. It is giving of thanks well, it is praise to God and it is for private prayer life, unless in a church group where the individual gives the interpretation with the end of edifying the church.

Originally posted by sonship
Have you heard any of the lectures of the Indian Christian [b]Ravi Zacharias ?

I would invite you to go to YouTube and look up the name Ravi Zacharias brought up Hindi, and hear some of his talks.

samples:

Is the Quran Accurate ? Ravi Zacharias explains.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzV-jPjCjXw

The Difference b ...[text shortened]... Jesus ? (speaks much about Hinduism here)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoPHmkkif5k[/b]

This man teaches falsehoods.

Therefore he is a charlatan.

Thats all I have to say.

Originally posted by Dasa
This man teaches falsehoods.

Therefore he is a charlatan.

Thats all I have to say.

That's all you have to say?

Finally, we got there.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
That's all you have to say?

Finally, we got there.

But as Dasa points out, we must be aware of those charlatans among us who pretend to speak in an unknown tongue to deceive others into giving them money.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Thanks to everyone for their replies. Interesting stuff.

Just a thought though, and based on what has been discussed, is 'learning another language' an unchristian act?

You're welcome. I do hope this information will prove useful.