1. Cosmos
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    09 Nov '05 07:26
    A friend of mine recently lost her baby (miscarried).

    Being religious, she is now racked by guilt, convinced that she has been punished by God for something she has done wrong.

    I have tried in vain to convince her that miscarriages before 3 months are simply natural and random events without blame or causes.

    A person suffering such emotional loss has it hard enough as it is. Why must religion punish them further with the notion of guilt and judgement from on high?
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    09 Nov '05 07:51
    Originally posted by howardgee
    A friend of mine recently lost her baby (miscarried).

    Being religious, she is now racked by guilt, convinced that she has been punished by God for something she has done wrong.

    I have tried in vain to convince her that miscarriages before 3 months are simply natural and random events without blame or causes.

    A person suffering such emotional los ...[text shortened]... is. Why must religion punish them further with the notion of guilt and judgement from on high?
    If she is a religious person then she should not blame God for any misfortune that befalls her. God is a merciful God and will always forgive us all for our sins.
  3. Cosmos
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    09 Nov '05 07:57
    Originally posted by Doremifaso
    If she is a religious person then she should not blame God for any misfortune that befalls her. God is a merciful God and will always forgive us all for our sins.
    Not according to the recent edition of "The Watchtower".

    This stipulated that only "a God-fearing life could be a worthy one" and that God was "Vengeful".

    I don't believe in any of this nonsense of course, but she is not as well educated as myself and has been subjected to the usual religious society brainwashing.
  4. Standard memberHalitose
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    09 Nov '05 07:59
    Originally posted by howardgee
    A friend of mine recently lost her baby (miscarried).

    Being religious, she is now racked by guilt, convinced that she has been punished by God for something she has done wrong.

    I have tried in vain to convince her that miscarriages before 3 months are simply natural and random events without blame or causes.

    A person suffering such emotional los ...[text shortened]... is. Why must religion punish them further with the notion of guilt and judgement from on high?
    While I express my sympathies for your friend, unfortunately her guilt is self-inflicted; please prove that the guilt is inspired by something within the Christian doctine. I hope you will step up this time rather than going on another tirade of unsubstantad hominems.

    Thanks in advance...
  5. Cosmos
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    09 Nov '05 08:00
    Originally posted by Halitose
    While I express my sympathies for your friend, unfortunately her guilt is self-inflicted; please prove that the guilt is inspired by something within the Christian doctine. I hope you will step up this time rather than going on another tirade of unsubstantad hominems.

    Thanks in advance...
    see above.
  6. Standard memberHalitose
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    09 Nov '05 08:05
    Originally posted by howardgee
    see above.
    The Watchtower? Which creed do they adhere to?
  7. Standard memberHalitose
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    09 Nov '05 08:08
    Originally posted by howardgee
    see above.
    You call that stepping up? You cite vague nonsensical platitudes...
  8. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    09 Nov '05 08:11
    Originally posted by howardgee
    Being religious, she is now racked by guilt, convinced that she has been punished by God for something she has done wrong.
    What were her home & family circumstances?
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    09 Nov '05 08:14
    Originally posted by howardgee
    A friend of mine recently lost her baby (miscarried).

    Being religious, she is now racked by guilt, convinced that she has been punished by God for something she has done wrong.

    I have tried in vain to convince her that miscarriages before 3 months are simply natural and random events without blame or causes.

    A person suffering such emotional los ...[text shortened]... is. Why must religion punish them further with the notion of guilt and judgement from on high?
    What type of religion are we talking about?

    The one I remember doesn't advocate punishment of any sort because of a miscarriage... It is not a way for God to "punish" His people. JC got rid of this notion long ago in the NT. One direct example would be when He heals a blind person and then tells the crowd around him that the man wasn't punished for his parents' sins (nor his own). [He says this because at the time, the popular belief was that if someone was blind, he were being punished for his parents' sins.] The point is, it's all hogwash. It is my belief, that if God exists, only He alone knows why this event occured, and making ourselves feel guilty about it will accomplish nothing; if anything, it will only make us feel more depressed than we already are. We can't guess for what purpose something happened the way it did, since we have no idea of why it occurred in the first place. I feel bad that she had a miscarriage, but the fact is that she will only make herself feel worse if she feels that this is some kind of punishment. And if this person who you are talking about is Christian, then I seriously doubt whether the Church/services she attends are good for her. I sympathize with anyone who loses a child, and making them feel guilty about it will certainly make it worse.

    By the way, I don't want to seem presumptuous, so if you are not referring to the Christian faith, then what religion ARE you talking about?
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    09 Nov '05 08:18
    Originally posted by howardgee
    Not according to the recent edition of "The Watchtower".

    This stipulated that only "a God-fearing life could be a worthy one" and that God was "Vengeful".

    I don't believe in any of this nonsense of course, but she is not as well educated as myself and has been subjected to the usual religious society brainwashing.
    If I'm not mistaken, I believe "The Watchtower" is meant for Jehovah's Witnesses. If this is the case, I am certainly not surprised. Some people here believe that Fundamentalist Christians live in their own world. They should talk to a JW...
  11. Standard memberHalitose
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    09 Nov '05 08:28
    Originally posted by lioyank
    If I'm not mistaken, I believe "The Watchtower" is meant for Jehovah's Witnesses. If this is the case, I am certainly not surprised. Some people here believe that Fundamentalist Christians live in their own world. They should talk to a JW...
    I believe "The Watchtower" is meant for Jehovah's Witnesses.

    My suspicion as well. I was just waiting for HG to kindly confirm...
  12. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    09 Nov '05 08:31
    Originally posted by Halitose
    [b]I believe "The Watchtower" is meant for Jehovah's Witnesses.

    My suspicion as well. I was just waiting for HG to kindly confirm...[/b]
    If HG changed his standard thread title to "Why religion has been/ can be dumb" I think he'd get further. The categorical isness of his dismissal is untenable.
  13. Cosmos
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    09 Nov '05 08:40
    All religions convey the concept of guilt to it's followers.

    Sacrifices traditionally are made to 'appease' the Gods which implies that somebody has upset them in the first place.

    Xtians doing evil tend to blame only themselves, but upon committing a good deed, or receiveing a favourable outcome from an action, will thank God.
    This detracts from their own self-value and own achievements and is an insidious reinforcement of the believer's guilt complex.

    Of course Jehovas Witless's are worse because they are extreme, but it is all just shades of the same red guilt complex.

    At the very least, Xtians are taught to feel guilty about sex from an early age. Indeed onanism is considered a sin, and sex is seen as being for procreation purposes only.
  14. Standard memberHalitose
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    09 Nov '05 08:42
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    If HG changed his standard thread title to "Why religion has been/ can be dumb" I think he'd get further. The categorical isness of his dismissal is untenable.
    Precisely...
  15. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    09 Nov '05 08:431 edit
    Originally posted by howardgee

    At the very least, Xtians are taught to feel guilty about sex from an early age. Indeed onanism is considered a sin, and sex is seen as being for procreation purposes only.
    Whether or not this is strictly Christian doctrine, it certainly accords with my experience.

    I'd have liked to be a fly on the wall in the Corinthian church 🙂
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