24 Oct '10 15:12>
I would like to hear some serious, mature, reasoned responses from those who believe there is no God as to why you think there is no God.
Let's take it slow and easy.
Let's take it slow and easy.
Originally posted by josephwWell firstly I don't believe any sources authored by non-supernatural beings about the supernatural and so until it can be demonstrated to *my* satisfaction (not yours) that at least one is inspired by the supernatural I have no basis for believing that any holy books are true.
I would like to hear some serious, mature, reasoned responses from those who believe there is no God as to why you think there is no God.
Let's take it slow and easy.
Originally posted by josephwIn that case we should be forced to accept in full that the so called creator was desirous to create the so called "all that exists" (he was desirous to create the observer universe).
Creator of all that exists.
Originally posted by AgergI'm looking for reasons why you don't believe that a creator doesn't exist, not reasons why you don't believe why I believe a creator exists.
Well [b]firstly I don't believe any sources authored by non-supernatural beings about the supernatural and so until it can be demonstrated to *my* satisfaction (not yours) that at least one is inspired by the supernatural I have no basis for believing that any holy books are true.
Arguments that won't work here are:
1) Appeals to my stupidity for not bel ...[text shortened]... epresented by your holy book, exists
10.5)...I'll post some more as they spring to mind[/b]
Originally posted by black beetleTo tell you the truth I'm not sure what you mean.
In that case we should be forced to accept in full that the so called creator was desirous to create the so called "all that exists" (he was desirous to create the observer universe).
Would you agree that this is a forced variation?
😵
Originally posted by josephwYou said you'd take it slow and easy Josephw so I'm going to point out one reason at a time. Reveal Hidden Content
I'm looking for reasons why you don't believe that a creator doesn't exist, not reasons why you don't believe why I believe a creator exists.
What evidence or proof do you have that there is no creator of all that exists?
Originally posted by AgergThen what about the universe? If you don't believe that a God communicated with man that's fine.
You said you'd take it slow and easy Josephw so I'm going to point out one reason at a time. [hidden](because a popular theist tactic is to cherry pick, divide, obfuscate, and then claim to have conquered)[/hidden] My first is that the major sources for asserting the existence of gods are holy books. I do not believe these to be true.
Originally posted by josephwMay I assume your lack of inclination to resolve my problem with holy books can be taken to mean that my first contention stands and you shall not make the mistake of referencing your own holy book to me as this thread evolves?
Then what about the universe? If you don't believe that a God communicated with man that's fine.
But what of the universe? Does it not make you wonder? Do you really think you have an answer about how, what, when, and why it exists?
Agerg, I'm not into tactics. I'm into reason and logic. I understand your reservations. I don't like what I see in what passes for Christianity in this world any more than you do.
Originally posted by josephw“...But what of the universe? Does it not make you wonder? Do you really think you have an answer about how, what, when, and why it exists? ….”
Then what about the universe? If you don't believe that a God communicated with man that's fine.
But what of the universe? Does it not make you wonder? Do you really think you have an answer about how, what, when, and why it exists?
Agerg, I'm not into tactics. I'm into reason and logic. I understand your reservations. I don't like what I see in what passes for Christianity in this world any more than you do.
Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton"So, therefore, because there is no credible evidence that there is a God,.."
I have basically said all this before many times but I try just one more time:
To show that an assumption that ANY particular existential claim is true is unreasonable ( not JUST the existential claim that there is a “God” ) when there is no credible evidence to support it, one only has to merely point out that is no credible evidence to support ...[text shortened]... served God because such claims are unreliable to say the least (for the reasons just given).
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonGet back to the thread.
“...But what of the universe? Does it not make you wonder? Do you really think you have an answer about how, what, when, and why it exists? ….”
Suppose you did not know about how, what, when, and why clouds exist -so you should conclude that a supernatural “God” must have created it? Answer; no.
this is because it does not logically follow from ...[text shortened]... and show us the intermediate steps in this logical deduction that goes from 1 above to 2 above.
Originally posted by Agerg"How about that we exist is nothing more than a transient by-product of the non caring mechanisms of a large, wholly natural universe?"
May I assume your lack of inclination to resolve my problem with holy books can be taken to mean that [b]my first contention stands and you shall not make the mistake of referencing your own holy book to me as this thread evolves?
...and what of the universe? Clearly it exists otherwise I would not be around to recognise it's non-existence. Why then n ...[text shortened]... than a transient by-product of the non caring mechanisms of a large, wholly natural universe?[/b]