Why would Abraham ...

@galveston75

Jesus always speaks of himself as something distinct from God the Father. When Jesus took human form he became the true image of God on this earth, we are also made in the image but none of use actually are God.

@eladar said
@galveston75

Jesus always speaks of himself as something distinct from God the Father. When Jesus took human form he became the true image of God on this earth, we are also made in the image but none of use actually are God.

Yes you are correct. Jesus is distinct from his father just as we are all distinct from our parents. My parents made me from their relations. Jehovah is not married but still created his son as a distinct creature. Jesus is separate but in all he believes, his actions and in his obedience of his fathers plans, yes he is in full accord or agreement with his Father. You see Jesus, you also see Jehovah in the very simple sense that they are as one in their actions, plans, agreements, etc.
But he is not Jehovah. Jesus remained completely loyal to his father when he was on earth in everything. But a very important point that most who think he is God Almighty is that while on earth and even though he was physically perfect, he was still a human and could have at any point in his life have decided not to do what he knew he was supposed to do and that was to eventually give up his life in death so that all humans could someday gain back what Adam lost for all of us.
If Jesus was really a third part of this trinity godhead thing and with us knowing according to the bible that God cannot sin or do nothing wicked or make mistakes, why did Satan approach Jesus and tempt him with basically the whole planet to take as his own if he would only bow down to Satan and worship him. Why did Satan do this? It is because Jesus is NOT God. Don't ones who think Jesus is actually God not realize that Satan would have never tried to trick Almighty God? Satan is bad but he is no fool.

@galveston75

Jesus does nothing that his Father does not want him to do. Are you the perfect representative of your parents? Are your children a perfect example of you?

@galveston75 said
Lol. Are you really serious? Here ya go:

Third Millennium Bible
Proverbs 8:27 (TMB) When He prepared the heavens, I was there; when He set a compass upon the face of the deep,

Third Millennium Bible w/ Apocrypha
Proverbs 8:27 (TMBA) When He prepared the heavens, I was there; when He set a compass upon the face of the deep,

The Webster Bible
Proverbs 8:27 (WBT ...[text shortened]... posted the first of these verses. Are these all fake too? Do I need to post more for you to condemn?

So?

I have no beef with this. Of course he was there. As I said the Word was with God from the beginning. You claim he was created.

@eladar said
@galveston75

Jesus does nothing that his Father does not want him to do. Are you the perfect representative of your parents? Are your children a perfect example of you?

That is true and no I'm not perfect as Jesus is so no I've made more then my share of mistakes.
But Jesus is still a separate creature from his father. Jesus said that many times and even said there are things about the future that he does not know but only his Father does and that his Father is greater then he is. That fact is something the trinity does not agree with. How they explain that and many more scriptures I've never got a clear answer on and that is because they don't know.
Going back to the statement that I made that raises everyone hair is that Jesus could have if he had chosen too and that is not to complete the things he did on earth. He could have walked away and could have become the King the Jews were wanting. He could have turned his back on his father and could have become whoever he wanted to be as a man.
Where does it say that in the Bible? IWhen he was on the stake and praying to his father about what was about to happen to him, Jesus had the power at anytime to free himself. He could have called on any amount of angels to help him just as he mentioned in the garden where he was arrested. He had the power at anytime to avoid any of those situations.
And there were times the Jews wanted him to be the King they had been waiting on for decades. He refused. But he could have.
Also to show Jesus was not almighty God, if Jehovah had not resurrected Jesus from the grave, he would still be dead today. A dead person cannot resurrect themselves. So can God Almighty die? No as the bible makes that very clear. So Jesus is not God Almighty because he did die.
So was Jesus God on earth? No as he's never been God Almighty anywhere at anytime. But yet the bible calls him a god. The bible has called many a god but they are not God Almighty. Compared to a human, Jesus is a godlike being.
So sense Jesus did die which God almighty cannot ever die, does that mean Jesus was immortal? No he was not again because he did die. So will Jesus ever be immortal? According to the Bible he was given immortality once he went back to heaven after he was resurrected. He proved his complete loyalty to his Father Jehovah even to his horrible death. In fact Jesus was now to be given a throne to sit on beside his Fathers right hand. Where does the bible say that?
Romans 6:9 says:
9 "For we know that Christ, now that he has been raised up from the dead, dies no more; death is no longer master over him."

A very simple scripture but one that shows very clearly that (((Jesus is not Jehovah))). He was created and from the beginning all of Jehovah's creations could die. But now Jesus has been given immortality, but he is still not Jehovah God Almighty!!!

@suzianne said
So?

I have no beef with this. Of course he was there. As I said the Word was with God from the beginning. You claim he was created.

Jesus said he was created. If you don't get that from Jesus own mouth, you have a problem huh?

@galveston75

Of course Jesus is separate from God the Father. I do not believe any of us disagree with that. It seems to me that our disagreement on this point is rather pointless. It is not a salvation issue from my point of view. Paul writes to not fight over matters that are debatable.

I am ok with you believing that Jesus came into being before creation itself.

@eladar said
@galveston75

Of course Jesus is separate from God the Father. I do not believe any of us disagree with that. It seems to me that our disagreement on this point is rather pointless. It is not a salvation issue from my point of view. Paul writes to not fight over matters that are debatable.

I am ok with you believing that Jesus came into being before creation itself.

Thanks. Enjoyed a decent conversation.

@galveston75 said
Jesus said he was created. If you don't get that from Jesus own mouth, you have a problem huh?

Jesus did NOT say that.

Point to where you say he said he was created.


This is like you saying that Jesus did not create everything, when it says exactly that, twice in one verse.

@galveston75

You are welcome. I know different denominations have different rallying cries. For the conservative church of christ found in places like Texas their big issue is baptism for the forgiveness of sins. Unlesd you know you are getting baptized to have your sins forgiven you are not actually baptized at all. This has caused all sorts of problems between them and the Baptists.

@suzianne said
Jesus did NOT say that.

Point to where you say he said he was created.


This is like you saying that Jesus did not create everything, when it says exactly that, twice in one verse.

Prov 8: 22,23
22 “The Lord created me first of all,
the first of his works, long ago.
23 I was made in the very beginning,
at the first, before the world began.
24 I was born before the oceans,
when there were no springs of water.
25 I was born before the mountains,
before the hills were set in place,
26 before God made the earth and its fields
or even the first handful of soil.
27 I was there when he set the sky in place,
when he stretched the horizon across the ocean,
28 when he placed the clouds in the sky,
when he opened the springs of the ocean
29 and ordered the waters of the sea
to rise no further than he said.
I was there when he laid the earth's foundations.
30 I was beside him like an architect,
I was his daily source of joy,
always happy in his presence—
31 happy with the world
and pleased with the human race.
GNT


22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
23 I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was constantly at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.
NIV

Just the first two Bibles I looked this up on. Feel free to look at all the versions you'd like. They all say the same....

@galveston75 said
Just the first two Bibles I looked this up on. Feel free to look at all the versions you'd like. They all say the same....

“Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.” Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father.”
Jn 14:8-9

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
Rev 1:8

But then in Rev 22:13
“I [Jesus] am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”

Jesus claims to be the Lord God, the Father in the gospels and in Revelation.

@divegeester said
“Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.” Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father.”
Jn 14:8-9

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
Rev 1:8

But then i ...[text shortened]... nning and the End.”

Jesus claims to be the Lord God, the Father in the gospels and in Revelation.

The whole bible says he's not. Humans could see Jesus.
This scripture is a lie then if Jesus is Jehovah because humans did see Jesus. "No one may see God and live". John 1:18
So these scriptures must mean something else, right? I've posted these scriptures myself many times and have by the bible explained them. You're not paying attention.
Don't ask me to explain them again as I have more important things to do then repeat everything to you again and again and again.
Those who choose to remain blind will remain blind.

@galveston75 said
Now let's let Jesus make this a little easier to understand and prove the trinity is not true on any level:

Proverbs 8:27-30


27 When he ( Jehovah) prepared the heavens, I was there;
When he marked out the horizon on the surface of the waters,
28 When he established the clouds above,
When he founded the fountains of the deep,
29 When he set a decree for the ...[text shortened]... is only his Father Jehovah we are to worship.
How blind one has to be to not see these scriptures.

Jesus wrote Proverbs?

@galveston75 said
The whole bible says he's not.

I’ve just proved to you unequivocally, that what you say here is not true.

In fact the scriptures I’ve quoted are crystal clear, especially Revelation.