Why?

Originally posted by jaywill
I said that the thrill is in opposing God. Even opposing the whole idea of God.

Of course you could ask atheists themselves and find out. But I frankyl don't trust their answers to be honest in many things.

The Bible says that some people [b]"hold down the truth in unrighteousness".

I would take that to mean that they know what is right but ...[text shortened]... o hold down such thoughts from rising up within them - an act of will fortified by reasoning.[/b]

I am a 100 percent, card-carrying atheist. If you can ask me an honest question, I will give you an honest answer, and I wont care if you trust me to do so or not. Your belief in God does not make Him real anywhere other than in your mind, and your mistrust of my honesty does not make me untrustworthy or dishonest, except in your mind.

Originally posted by jaywill
I said that the thrill is in opposing God. Even opposing the whole idea of God.

Of course you could ask atheists themselves and find out. But I frankyl don't trust their answers to be honest in many things.

The Bible says that some people [b]"hold down the truth in unrighteousness".

I would take that to mean that they know what is right but ...[text shortened]... o hold down such thoughts from rising up within them - an act of will fortified by reasoning.[/b]

If I turn out to be wrong, and God reveals himself as real, I would be thrilled to oppose him. Germain Greer (rabid feminist of the 60s, staunch atheist, Aussie expat in London) said a similar thing: if God is real, he must be one evil nutcase.

Having said that, I see the idea of God as absurd and doubt that I will ever enjoy such a thrill.

Originally posted by Conrau K
If I turn out to be wrong, and God reveals himself as real, I would be thrilled to oppose him. Germain Greer (rabid feminist of the 60s, staunch atheist, Aussie expat in London) said a similar thing: if God is real, he must be one evil nutcase.

Having said that, I see the idea of God as absurd and doubt that I will ever enjoy such a thrill.

The thrill is not anywhere as great as aligning with Christ to oppose and defeat the devil.

I prefer to be on the winning side.

Originally posted by jaywill
The thrill is not anywhere as great as aligning with Christ to oppose and defeat the devil.

I prefer to be on the winning side.

What? So your saying atheists take a thrill out of taking the opposing side? Do you Understand the meaning of the word Atheist?

Your a Theist.... You have a god
A-Theist.... Without a god

Atheists by their very nature don't believe there even is a side to take.... They're not opposing god, they don't even recognize your belief in his existence...
Some believe as doggedly as you do that he doesn't exist.

Originally posted by Mexico
What? So your saying atheists take a thrill out of taking the opposing side? Do you Understand the meaning of the word Atheist?

Your a Theist.... You have a god
A-Theist.... Without a god

Atheists by their very nature don't believe there even is a side to take.... They're not opposing god, they don't even recognize your belief in his existence...
Some believe as doggedly as you do that he doesn't exist.

Okay. I get the point.

Originally posted by Mexico
What? So your saying atheists take a thrill out of taking the opposing side? Do you Understand the meaning of the word Atheist?

Your a Theist.... You have a god
A-Theist.... Without a god

Atheists by their very nature don't believe there even is a side to take.... They're not opposing god, they don't even recognize your belief in his existence...
Some believe as doggedly as you do that he doesn't exist.

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What? So your saying atheists take a thrill out of taking the
opposing side? Do you Understand the meaning of the word Atheist?
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I understand it like I understand. I think at least at some time in my life I was one.

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Your a Theist.... You have a god
A-Theist.... Without a god
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Well, I would say that both the Atheist and the Theist both have a God.

The Atheist says that s/he doesn't believe that there is one.

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Atheists by their very nature don't believe there even is a side to take.... They're not opposing god, they don't even recognize your belief in his existence...
====================================[/b]

And I in turn don't believe that there are very many true atheists. So we are even aren't we?

"The fool says in his heart, there is no God"

Maybe there are some genuine foolish thinking people who really think there is no God.


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Some believe as doggedly as you do that he doesn't exist.
=====================================


Well, like I said I think it is very private. I think he "holds down the truth in unrighteousness" as the book of Romans says.

I am of the opinion that the Apostle Paul was right. The atheist "holds down the truth".

Originally posted by jaywill
The thrill is not anywhere as great as aligning with Christ to oppose and defeat the devil.

I prefer to be on the winning side.

Well Jaywill, the devil has been defeated. Basically all that is left is to work out the screenplay of the ending. (Biblically speaking) It's a shame that Jesus doesn't really give it his all when it comes to saving souls from eternal torment. It seems he's more concerned with his petty game of blind faith. If he'd just use some of his infinite power.

Originally posted by jaywill
The thrill is not anywhere as great as aligning with Christ to oppose and defeat the devil.

I prefer to be on the winning side.

Surely if God is omnipotent he does not need my help.

Originally posted by jaywill
The thrill is not anywhere as great as aligning with Christ to oppose and defeat the devil.

I prefer to be on the winning side.

The devil is just a smokescreen.

The real issue is whether your God can defeat himself - can his alleged desire to save overcome his desire to torment people for the 'crime' of not being perfect?

But you miss the point... Which is that all this is your belief. I am a true Atheist, I don't believe in any Gods, I actually think that people create/follow gods to justify their place in the universe.
You seem to be of the opinion that all Atheists believe in god but suppress that belief.
I believe we exist by random chance, with no higher purpose than exist to further ourselves as a race. There is nothing bigger than this and there is no life beyond this. I also believe that religion exists to explain that which we can't explain. Fire to tribals, storms to sailors, meteors to pre-Astronomy society etc etc....
But you see the point is thats what I believe. It doesn't make it correct.....
Just as you believe in you religion....... It doesn't make you right.

Originally posted by Conrau K
Surely if God is omnipotent he does not need my help.

This is a good point. But God seems to prefer not to act unilaterally but to secure men whose will on earth harmonizes with His will in heaven.

He may not need help. That is true. However He may prefer to do the job in coordination and cooperation with His people. It brings more glory to Him.

It vindicates Him more against a rebellious creature to inlist the cooperation of a creature who is one with Him to put down the rebellious creature.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
The devil is just a smokescreen.

The real issue is whether your God can defeat himself - can his alleged desire to save overcome his desire to torment people for the 'crime' of not being perfect?

Where in the Bible does it say that God will torment me for the crime of not being perfect?

Could you please quote which passage best discribes this belief? It should contain the word "torment" or an equivalent.

I need to see the basis of your opinion about this and its context also.

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Surely if God is omnipotent he does not need my help.

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You don't understand the central purpose of God. God's plan is to dispense Himself into His people. God's eternal purpose is to unite with His redeemed people.

In a concise way He has Christ the Firstborn Son of God. He will and is obtaining many sons of God as brothers of Christ - His duplication.

The scales are tiped towards God's will as more and more people become saturated with Christ as their element and essence. It does not take a huge number. But it takes a number of some amount that only God knows.

Those of us who are giving ourselves over to this saturation of Christ are cooperating with Him to turn the age to the kingdom age and the second physical coming of Jesus Christ.

We are fignting by dying with Christ and living with Christ through allowing His Spirit to enter, fill, saturate, sanctify, and be absorbed into our beings.

Instead of sitting around complaining why God will not do this or that we understand His plan. God desires to mass produce God-men and build them up into a corporate entity.

This is taking place on the earth today.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]================================

Surely if God is omnipotent he does not need my help.

=================================

You don't understand the central purpose of God. God's plan is to dispense Himself into His people. God's eternal purpose is to unite with His redeemed people.

In a concise way He has Christ the Firstborn Son of ...[text shortened]... -men and build them up into a corporate entity.

This is taking place on the earth today.[/b]

You characterised the world as a battlefield between God and the devil, and implied that mankind must align itself with God to defeat the Devil.

Surely if God is omnipotent he could sidestep the whole struggle between good and evil, and trounce the devil.

Conrau K

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You characterised the world as a battlefield between God and the devil, and implied that mankind must align itself with God to defeat the Devil.

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That is true. In fact that seems to be one of the reasons for which God created man in the first place.

He created man in His image and gave to man to have dominion. Image was to express God and represent God. Dominion was to excercise the deputy authority of God over God's creation.

I believe that the divine answer to the rebellion of one of His arch-angels was the creation of man.

What Adam failed to do Christ succeeded in doing. Christ is called "the second man". So He is the real Adam version 2. Or He is "the last Adam"

To understand man and God you must concentrate your study on Jesus Christ. Christ is what God mean by "human being".

Now this last Adam has become a life giving Spirit to enter into us and bring us into a new Satan crushing, Devil defeating humanity -

"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor 15:45)

As the life giving Spirit the resurrected Christ imparts His divine nature and life more into the fabric of His people's being. This saturation IS the collective defeating of the Devil. The more you are filled with Christ the more the devil is defeated.

When a army of people become filled and saturated with the pneumatic life giving Spirit of the resurrected God man Jesus the enemy of God and man will be crushed under our feet.

"Now the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you." (Romans 16:20)

Reality is more fascinating than fiction. There is an invisible war. My turning my being over to Jesus is not just saving me from the fires of hell. It is forming and constituting the corporate entity which is crushing Satan under our feet.

On Christ as the God man could accomplish redemption. But Christ with His Christ saturated, Christ filled army, will crush the devil.

So if you want to participate in steering the glorious destiny of the universe you should allow the resurrected Christ to firstly redeem you. Then you should allow Him to enter into you and saturate you with His divine nature and perfect humanity.

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Surely if God is omnipotent he could sidestep the whole struggle between good and evil, and trounce the devil.
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You have your style and God has His style.

The trouncing has taken place. But the trouncing must saturate the beings of a cooperative group of Christ's redeemed people. We must believe and subjectively partake of the victory which Christ has secured.

The scales are tiped as some amount of people are saturated subjectively with the Spirit of Jesus Christ and partake of His victory.

Turning your being over to the Lord and Savior Jesus is advancing the universal victory of Christ over the Devil. And you will not only enjoy enternal life but also reigning with Him in His coming kingdom for 1,000 years.

Let me say it again -

Turning your being over to the Lord and Savior Jesus is also ADVANCING the universal victory of the God man Christ over Satan. This is the way God has chosen for His own reasons.