Will Judas be in heaven?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Kirk: " ...... this is where I'm confused because you say Jesus forgave all of our sins "past, present , and future" so what difference would it make if Judas accepted forgiveness as they were forgiven anyway."

..... are you being humurous again or are you really confused. I make a bet on the latter ...... are you for real ?

No, I really am confused. But I know that won't be a suprise to you. I'm keepin it as real as can be.

Originally posted by kirksey957
OK, so if Judas accepted forgiveness.....this is where I'm confused because you say Jesus forgave all of our sins "past, present , and future" so what difference would it make if Judas accepted forgiveness as they were forgiven anyway ...[text shortened]... er thing I hear you saying is that suicide damns somebody to hell.

Captain Kirk: "I guess another thing I hear you saying is that suicide damns somebody to hell."

The gospel of Kirk will tell us you will enter his "Enlarged Tent". Right ?

Originally posted by no1marauder
He's asserted that before although he has failed to provide a Biblical passage that explicitly condemns suicide. Passages that condemn "murder" and then an argument from Darfius that suicide is "self-murder" don't count.

Look up what the word 'suicide' means, please. I'll give you a hint. Do you know what genocide means?

Originally posted by kirksey957
OK, so if Judas accepted forgiveness.....this is where I'm confused because you say Jesus forgave all of our sins "past, present , and future" so what difference would it make if Judas accepted forgiveness as they were forgiven anyway. I guess another thing I hear you saying is that suicide damns somebody to hell.

Because if you don't accept it, then you are employing your free will to reject God. Then He honors your wish.

Originally posted by kirksey957
OK, so if Judas accepted forgiveness.....this is where I'm confused because you say Jesus forgave all of our sins "past, present , and future" so what difference would it make if Judas accepted forgiveness as they were forgiven anyway. I guess another thing I hear you saying is that suicide damns somebody to hell.

Now this is an extremely interesting soteriological question!

Now the Greek word most often translated as “forgiveness” is aphiemi, which literally means to let go, to release, to set free. The other Greek word apoluo is even stronger (correct me if I’m wrong on this), meaning more like to throw away (literally, to “loose forth&rdquo😉.

So, if Judas was, in fact, “released” from his sins, does that mean acceptance is still necessary.

Where I’m coming from is this: that acceptance may give us assurance of forgiveness (i.e., the “assurance of faith), but does not effect the forgiveness, or the salvation. I’m not asserting this, just exploring it. I do think it has some standing in the theological community. I’m probably stating it simplistically, but I do not think these things are always so clear-cut.

As for Judas (or, say, the woman who was to be stoned—Jesus said: “neither do I condemn you” but there is no record that she confessed, asked or accepted forgiveness), there is no direct scriptural evidence for the case at hand.

Originally posted by kirksey957
No, I really am confused. But I know that won't be a suprise to you. I'm keepin it as real as can be.

Sometimes I admire Darfius for answering questions that are stupid beyond belief ...... Many try to ridicule him, but doing this they make @ssholes of themselves.

.... I'm happy you're not one of them, Kirk. You are trying to have an honest and intelligent debate with him ......... right ?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Captain Kirk: "I guess another thing I hear you saying is that suicide damns somebody to hell."

The gospel of Kirk will tell us you will enter his "Enlarged Tent". Right ?

"IN my father's house are many abiding places."

Originally posted by Darfius
Look up what the word 'suicide' means, please. I'll give you a hint. Do you know what geno[b]cide means?[/b]

I'll take that as a "no there are no passages in the Bible explicitly saying that if you commit suicide you go to Hell". Thanks for the answer, Darfius. Of course, sui means "one's self" and cide is "kill" so suicide, unsurprisingly means "to kill one's self". So what? Can't even murderers go to Heaven?

Originally posted by ivanhoe

Sometimes I admire Darfius for answering questions that are stupid beyond belief ...... Many try to ridicule him, but doing this they make @ssholes of themselves.

.... I'm happy you're not one of them, Kirk. You are trying to have an honest and intelligent debate with him ......... right ?

If you want to look at me as an a$$hole trying to have an intelligent conversation, that is OK with me. Really it is.

Originally posted by kirksey957
If you want to look at me as an a$$hole trying to have an intelligent conversation, that is OK with me. Really it is.

Hold it hold it hold it ..... I didn't say that ...... the very idea ......😛

Originally posted by no1marauder
I'll take that as a "no there are no passages in the Bible explicitly saying that if you commit suicide you go to Hell". Thanks for the answer, Darfius. Of course, sui means "one's self" and cide is "kill" so suicide, unsurprisingly means "to kill one's self". So what? Can't even murderers go to Heaven?

Murderers have to repent. How can one repent if one is dead?

Originally posted by Darfius
Murderers have to repent. How can one repent if one is dead?

All sinners are supposed to repent (metanoia: change your mind), but is repentance necessary for forgiveness (aphiemi: to be released or set free, or let go[/i]). But is metanoia necessary for forgiveness? The woman who was about to be stoned for adultery: Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you.” There is no record that she confessed, or asked or accepted forgiveness.

Is there a NT verse that says explicitly “no repentance, no forgiveness” (not those exact words, but something that explicit)?

Originally posted by Darfius
Judas committed suicide. He is most assuredly in hell

What Darfius says here is interesting. I am reminded that Jesus commited suicide too. Ironically, if we go with the trinity thing a bit, we get that on the cross, God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) commited suicide, regicide, deicide, homocide, and filicide all at the same time!

Originally posted by telerion
What Darfius says here is interesting. I am reminded that Jesus too commited suicide too. Ironically, if we go with the trinity thing a bit, we get that on the cross, God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) commited suicide, regicide, deicide, homocide, and filicide all at the same time!

How exactly did Jesus commit suicide? There is a difference between knowing someone will kill you and pulling the trigger.

Your claim is bias and unfounded.

Originally posted by vistesd
All sinners are supposed to repent (metanoia: change your mind), but is repentance necessary for forgiveness (aphiemi: to be released or set free, or let go[/i]). But is metanoia necessary for forgiveness? The woman who was about to be stoned for adultery: Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you.” There is no record that she confesse ...[text shortened]... plicitly “no repentance, no forgiveness” (not those exact words, but something that explicit)?

Heb 10:25-31 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. (26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: (29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (30) For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. (31) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.