1. Houston, Texas
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    20 Feb '12 00:06
    After all, he died for our sins and to give us everlasting life.
  2. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    20 Feb '12 00:13
    Originally posted by moon1969
    After all, he died for our sins and to give us everlasting life.
    I don't think they saw it that way at the time. The myth of the propitiatory sacrifice wasn't invented for a decades yet.
  3. Houston, Texas
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    20 Feb '12 00:182 edits
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I don't think they saw it that way at the time. The myth of the propitiatory sacrifice wasn't invented for a decades yet.
    True. But in the hypothetical if you were present at the crucifixion and if you knew then what you know now. That he was dying for our sins and to give us everlasting life. If you could go back into time to the crucifixion, would you be cheering and even offering to help hammer.
  4. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    20 Feb '12 00:29
    Originally posted by moon1969
    True. But in the hypothetical if you were present at the crucifixion and if you knew then what you know now. That he was dying for our sins and to give us everlasting life. If you could go back into time to the crucifixion, would you be cheering and even offering to help hammer.
    That's just another way of asking if Judas should be given a medal for his part in bringing the crucifixion to pass. There are certainly some who took a similar view.
  5. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
    Brisbane,QLD
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    20 Feb '12 02:28
    Originally posted by moon1969
    After all, he died for our sins and to give us everlasting life.
    See thats another thing that gets me: how can you get given everlasting life? Either you've always had an eternal nature and have just gone to sleep in this material body waiting to learn the lessons to once again awaken to your immortality, or there is no everlasting life.
    Think about it .
  6. Standard membermenace71
    Can't win a game of
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    20 Feb '12 08:021 edit
    I think it would be horrifying like watching some get the electric chair or any other form of execution . So not me. Even if I knew it were for my sins.




    Manny
  7. Account suspended
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    20 Feb '12 08:46
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I don't think they saw it that way at the time. The myth of the propitiatory sacrifice wasn't invented for a decades yet.
    wrong, it was typified centuries before, indeed the entire Jewish system with its
    emphasis on sacrifice for sin created an environment purely conducive to the
    acceptance of the idea, how this could have escaped your notice great Ming, i cannot
    say!
  8. Joined
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    20 Feb '12 09:24
    Originally posted by moon1969
    True. But in the hypothetical if you were present at the crucifixion and if you knew then what you know now. That he was dying for our sins and to give us everlasting life. If you could go back into time to the crucifixion, would you be cheering and even offering to help hammer.
    i wouldnt cheer the death of anybody (except margaret thatcher). id think he was being a bit of a drama queen.

    j "ive got to die for your sins"
    the people "no you dont"
    j "yes i do"
    the people "who says?"
    j "i do"
    the people "who put you in charge"
    j "me"
    the people "well then your an idiot"
  9. Joined
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    20 Feb '12 16:56
    Originally posted by menace71
    I think it would be horrifying like watching some get the electric chair or any other form of execution . So not me. Even if I knew it were for my sins.




    Manny
    Anyone who disagrees should watch one, or as a substitute, Pierrepoint available streaming on netflix.
  10. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
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    20 Feb '12 17:33
    Originally posted by rwingett
    That's just another way of asking if Judas should be given a medal for his part in bringing the crucifixion to pass. There are certainly some who took a similar view.
    Actually, it looks like the bit about Judas was wrong. There is a book of Judas in the rejected scriptures that had Jesus telling Judas he had to be the one to start the process, all started by Jesus with full knowledge ahead of time. According to that Gnostic writing, fully rejected in the council in Nicea (Now Iznik, Turkey). They couldn't have the true story contaminating the prevailing mythology 300 year later.
  11. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
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    20 Feb '12 20:53
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    See thats another thing that gets me: how can you get given everlasting life? Either you've always had an eternal nature and have just gone to sleep in this material body waiting to learn the lessons to once again awaken to your immortality, or there is no everlasting life.
    Think about it .
    Well, do you believe in everlasting death?
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
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    20 Feb '12 20:56
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Actually, it looks like the bit about Judas was wrong. There is a book of Judas in the rejected scriptures that had Jesus telling Judas he had to be the one to start the process, all started by Jesus with full knowledge ahead of time. According to that Gnostic writing, fully rejected in the council in Nicea (Now Iznik, Turkey). They couldn't have the true story contaminating the prevailing mythology 300 year later.
    In that story does Judas return the 30 pieces of silver and commit suicide?
  13. Joined
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    20 Feb '12 21:361 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Actually, it looks like the bit about Judas was wrong. There is a book of Judas in the rejected scriptures that had Jesus telling Judas he had to be the one to start the process, all started by Jesus with full knowledge ahead of time. According to that Gnostic writing, fully rejected in the council in Nicea (Now Iznik, Turkey). They couldn't have the true story contaminating the prevailing mythology 300 year later.
    Apparently they threw out a lot of 'inconvenient scriptures' at nicea; is there a list somewhere?
  14. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
    Brisbane,QLD
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    21 Feb '12 04:05
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Well, do you believe in everlasting death?
    Death is an illusion to me. We are not this body. We are the force of animation that comes into this body at the moment of conception .
    The fact that we are born with amnesia should be no deterrent to intelligently waking up to our original spiritual natures.
    I dont believe in hell. I dont believe in God as described by any christians on this site. The gnostic christians were the closest in explaining "God" to me.
    I dont believe that Jesus was resurrected.

    Anyway, Jesus had an advantage either way you look at it. Have you seen Mel Gibsons depiction of Jesus' life in his movie ... (err, I forget the name).

    Anyway, in short , I dont believe that any normal man could have taken a whipping like that (cat of nine tails whips ripping hunks of flesh out amongst the other tortures he endured ), and still been alive - let alone had enough strength to carry that huge cross up that hill. So like I said, Jesus had an advantage if he really did do those things, and if that is right, then who would really feel for him at all as he had supernatural powers that could make him do all those things, yet , for some reason, still show pain and fatigue, etc. like a normal man.
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