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Originally posted by rwingettTrue. But in the hypothetical if you were present at the crucifixion and if you knew then what you know now. That he was dying for our sins and to give us everlasting life. If you could go back into time to the crucifixion, would you be cheering and even offering to help hammer.
I don't think they saw it that way at the time. The myth of the propitiatory sacrifice wasn't invented for a decades yet.
Originally posted by moon1969That's just another way of asking if Judas should be given a medal for his part in bringing the crucifixion to pass. There are certainly some who took a similar view.
True. But in the hypothetical if you were present at the crucifixion and if you knew then what you know now. That he was dying for our sins and to give us everlasting life. If you could go back into time to the crucifixion, would you be cheering and even offering to help hammer.
Originally posted by moon1969See thats another thing that gets me: how can you get given everlasting life? Either you've always had an eternal nature and have just gone to sleep in this material body waiting to learn the lessons to once again awaken to your immortality, or there is no everlasting life.
After all, he died for our sins and to give us everlasting life.
Think about it .
Originally posted by rwingettwrong, it was typified centuries before, indeed the entire Jewish system with its
I don't think they saw it that way at the time. The myth of the propitiatory sacrifice wasn't invented for a decades yet.
emphasis on sacrifice for sin created an environment purely conducive to the
acceptance of the idea, how this could have escaped your notice great Ming, i cannot
say!
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Originally posted by moon1969i wouldnt cheer the death of anybody (except margaret thatcher). id think he was being a bit of a drama queen.
True. But in the hypothetical if you were present at the crucifixion and if you knew then what you know now. That he was dying for our sins and to give us everlasting life. If you could go back into time to the crucifixion, would you be cheering and even offering to help hammer.
j "ive got to die for your sins"
the people "no you dont"
j "yes i do"
the people "who says?"
j "i do"
the people "who put you in charge"
j "me"
the people "well then your an idiot"
Originally posted by rwingettActually, it looks like the bit about Judas was wrong. There is a book of Judas in the rejected scriptures that had Jesus telling Judas he had to be the one to start the process, all started by Jesus with full knowledge ahead of time. According to that Gnostic writing, fully rejected in the council in Nicea (Now Iznik, Turkey). They couldn't have the true story contaminating the prevailing mythology 300 year later.
That's just another way of asking if Judas should be given a medal for his part in bringing the crucifixion to pass. There are certainly some who took a similar view.
Originally posted by karoly aczelWell, do you believe in everlasting death?
See thats another thing that gets me: how can you get given everlasting life? Either you've always had an eternal nature and have just gone to sleep in this material body waiting to learn the lessons to once again awaken to your immortality, or there is no everlasting life.
Think about it .
Originally posted by sonhouseIn that story does Judas return the 30 pieces of silver and commit suicide?
Actually, it looks like the bit about Judas was wrong. There is a book of Judas in the rejected scriptures that had Jesus telling Judas he had to be the one to start the process, all started by Jesus with full knowledge ahead of time. According to that Gnostic writing, fully rejected in the council in Nicea (Now Iznik, Turkey). They couldn't have the true story contaminating the prevailing mythology 300 year later.
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Originally posted by sonhouseApparently they threw out a lot of 'inconvenient scriptures' at nicea; is there a list somewhere?
Actually, it looks like the bit about Judas was wrong. There is a book of Judas in the rejected scriptures that had Jesus telling Judas he had to be the one to start the process, all started by Jesus with full knowledge ahead of time. According to that Gnostic writing, fully rejected in the council in Nicea (Now Iznik, Turkey). They couldn't have the true story contaminating the prevailing mythology 300 year later.
Originally posted by RJHindsDeath is an illusion to me. We are not this body. We are the force of animation that comes into this body at the moment of conception .
Well, do you believe in everlasting death?
The fact that we are born with amnesia should be no deterrent to intelligently waking up to our original spiritual natures.
I dont believe in hell. I dont believe in God as described by any christians on this site. The gnostic christians were the closest in explaining "God" to me.
I dont believe that Jesus was resurrected.
Anyway, Jesus had an advantage either way you look at it. Have you seen Mel Gibsons depiction of Jesus' life in his movie ... (err, I forget the name).
Anyway, in short , I dont believe that any normal man could have taken a whipping like that (cat of nine tails whips ripping hunks of flesh out amongst the other tortures he endured ), and still been alive - let alone had enough strength to carry that huge cross up that hill. So like I said, Jesus had an advantage if he really did do those things, and if that is right, then who would really feel for him at all as he had supernatural powers that could make him do all those things, yet , for some reason, still show pain and fatigue, etc. like a normal man.