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Originally posted by telerion
Are all sins worthy of the final punishment? Does God treat some sins as worthy of Hellfire and others not worthy of Hellfire?

Oh, great question! Does a mere white liar and otherwise sinless human need Christ's salvation in order to get to heaven? If so, then it seems that God would find all sin equally abhorrent, and thus the human's perceived magnitude should have no bearing on brotherhood.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
In God's eyes, are sins relatively bad or all equally bad?

I know that the Roman Catholic Church took a stance on this in their
super-corrupt understanding of Purgatory which they have since
rescinded and returned to a far more reasonable point of view. Such
a position has historical precedent, but I'm not sure that there is a
Scriptural one.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
I know that the Roman Catholic Church took a stance on this in their
super-corrupt understanding of Purgatory which they have since
rescinded and returned to a far more reasonable point of view. Such
a position has historical precedent, but I'm not sure that there is a
Scriptural one.

Nemesio

Which stance did they take and rescind? That sins are relative in God's eyes?

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Which stance did they take and rescind? That sins are relative in God's eyes?

They used to have little charts which said how long you would spend
in Purgatory for each kind of sin. Father Gibroni (or whatever his name
was) did a hysterical parody of this on Saturday Night Live back
when the show was actually funny.

So the charts said stuff like:
1000 years -- Murder
500 years -- Rape
100 years -- Adultery
100 days -- Lies
200 days -- Masturbation

and so on.

And below that, it would say the sorts of indulgences which would remit
the days in Purgatory.

100 days remitted -- Reading a chapter of the Gospel
50 days remitted -- Reading a chapter of an Epistle
25 days remitted -- Saying 5 rosaries
10 days remitted -- Praying before bedtime

(I've made up these figures, but it's a fair representation.)

They have totally abandoned such absurdities and restored the
concepts of Purgatory and Indulgence back to more theologically
sound stances.

Nemesio

Originally posted by telerion
Are all sins worthy of the final punishment? Does God treat some sins as worthy of Hellfire and others not worthy of Hellfire?

Yes, even the smallest sin warrants damnation. That is why everyone needs Christ to redeem them.

All of a saved person's sins are forgiven, even the ones he will commit in the future. But he has also been regenerated by the Holy Spirit and has been changed from that moment on. He is aware of his sin, and he hates it. He strives to serve God - love his neighbor and obey the commandment, to glorify God.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Well, that's what I originally asked. Why didn't you just say so?

Is disobeying the 9th Commandment less egregious than disobeying the 5th Commandment?

In God's eyes, are sins relatively bad or all equally bad?

I understand that in man's eyes they are relative. But that should be irrelevant regarding Christian brotherhood, if all brothers ...[text shortened]... being sin, not by virtue of any harm they bring to humans - are equally displeasing to God.

Some sins are greater than others - but all warrant damnation.

Originally posted by Coletti
Some sins are greater than others - but all warrant damnation.

Then God must not be just. There are only two ultimate consequences - eternal punishment, or eternal bliss - yet a full spectrum of violations of God's law. A spectrum of violations calls for a spectrum of consequences in a just system. Without a spectrum of consequences, the scales won't balance, because some won't pay for what they get, and some won't get what they pay for.

Originally posted by Coletti
Some sins are greater than others - but all warrant damnation.

What does this mean?

If all warrant punishment and all are remitted by the same sincere
contrition, how is one better or worse? By what Biblical standard are
we asserting this?

Nemesio

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Then God must not be just. There are only two ultimate consequences - eternal punishment, or eternal bliss - yet a full spectrum of violations of God's law. A spectrum of violations calls for a spectrum of consequences in a just system. Without a spectrum of consequences, the scales won't balance, because some won't pay for what they get, and some won't get what they pay for.

God's justice is demonstrated by Christ death redeeming us from our sins. His perfect obedience and subsequent death has paid the penalty for the sins of believers. Grace is that this redemption is a free gift to those who believe.

Originally posted by Coletti
God's justice is demonstrated by Christ death redeeming us from our sins. His perfect obedience and subsequent death has paid the penalty for the sins of believers. Grace is that this redemption is a free gift to those who believe.

But what about the non-believers? Is God just with respect to them? If a lie is not as bad as a murder, yet both receive equally harsh consequences, do the scales balance?

Originally posted by Nemesio
What does this mean?

If all warrant punishment and all are remitted by the same sincere
contrition, how is one better or worse? By what Biblical standard are
we asserting this?

Nemesio

It depends on what you mean by "better or worse". As far as the final punishment goes, they are all equally bad. But not all sin is to be treated the same as far as how we deal with each other. Rape and murder are capital crimes. A thief can make restitution. A liar can correct his lies and restore the reputation of the person who he has given a false witness about.

Originally posted by Coletti
It depends on what you mean by "better or worse". As far as the final punishment goes, they are all equally bad. But not all sin is to be treated the same as far as how we deal with each other. Rape and murder are capital crimes. A thief can make restitution. A liar can correct his lies and restore the reputation of the person who he has given a false witness about.

Allow me to try again.

In God's eyes, are sins relatively bad or all equally bad?

I understand that in man's eyes they are relative. But that should be irrelevant regarding Christian brotherhood, if all brothers sin, and if all sins - by virtue of their being sin, not by virtue of any harm they bring to humans - are equally displeasing to God.

Originally posted by Coletti
It depends on what you mean by "better or worse". As far as the final punishment goes, they are all equally bad. But not all sin is to be treated the same as far as how we deal with each other. Rape and murder are capital crimes. A thief can make restitution. A liar can correct his lies and restore the reputation of the person who he has given a false witness about.

You are using 'better and worse' in a earthly sense. Of course
murder is a worse crime than lying (which isn't a crime).

The question is, is it a worse sin? If both equally merit
damnation, and both can be remitted by the same sincerity of
contrition, what difference do they have in the eyes of God?

I don't see that they do.

As such, I do not know how you could assert that a murderer is any
less likely to be your brother than a liar.

Nemesio

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Allow me to try again.

[b]In God's eyes, are sins relatively bad or all equally bad?

I understand that in man's eyes they are relative. But that should be irrelevant regarding Christian brotherhood, if all brothers sin, and if all sins - by virtue of their being sin, not by virtue of any harm they bring to humans - are equally displeasing to God.[/b]

I like they way I said it better 😛

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Allow me to try again.

[b]In God's eyes, are sins relatively bad or all equally bad?

I understand that in man's eyes they are relative. But that should be irrelevant regarding Christian brotherhood, if all brothers sin, and if all sins - by virtue of their being sin, not by virtue of any harm they bring to humans - are equally displeasing to God.[/b]

Because we can only judge the state of someone who calls himself a brother by his actions and if he has changed his ways.

A chronic and unrepentant liar is just as much the a reprobate as an unrepentant murderer (think of Tookie Williams). And it takes conscious effort to murder and to be a chronic liar - a will to sin rather than a will to obey.

A brother will occasionally tell a lie, but he will repent when he realized his mistake. But a murder has either planned his kill, or has let hate build up in him until he looses control. These are clear signs of being a reprobate. A brother might take something that is not his, but the Spirit will convict his conscience and he will repent.