Originally posted by robbie carrobieIt is simply a belief system like any other
no it has not been unproven, if you would like to take the time to read Professor Behes own blog, you shall see that he refutes the refutations of his theory. i did not start this debate on the premise that you suppose, i am just making sure that you do not go beyond what is acceptable, for the exact same criteria that is applied to religion, in thi ...[text shortened]... applied to the Darwinian evolutionary hypothesis. It is simply a belief system like any other.
If that's what you need to keep telling yourself, you keep doing it.
you shall see that he refutes the refutations of his theory
Well of course he's going to. Why doesn't he publish his findings and get them reviewed by his peers? Because the last time he did his findings and conclusions were shown to be false.
Originally posted by Proper KnobWhy thank you, i will and i shall!
[b]It is simply a belief system like any other
If that's what you need to keep telling yourself, you keep doing it.
you shall see that he refutes the refutations of his theory
Well of course he's going to. Why doesn't he publish his findings and get them reviewed by his peers? Because the last time he did his findings and conclusions were shown to be false.[/b]
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe way I see it is there's the Christians,the aethiests, and the rest.
open minded, well i read the majority of posts on this forum, it matters not whether they are from Atheists, Catholics, born againers, Buddhists, what ever, however, the fact of the matter remains, that wisdom, is proven righteous, by its works. Let me ask you Karoly Poly, what you think that means? For there in lies the answer to what i am prepared to accept and what i am not.
What do I think open mindedness means? iIt means the ability to say you are wrong when you're views are proven false,for a start.
Originally posted by karoly aczelah yes, but therein lies the question, what proves they are wrong, for wisdom is proven righteous by its works.
The way I see it is there's the Christians,the aethiests, and the rest.
What do I think open mindedness means? iIt means the ability to say you are wrong when you're views are proven false,for a start.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI guess whether you're open-minded is kinda hard for a JW to answer. Dont worry about it.
ah yes, but therein lies the question, what proves they are wrong, for wisdom is proven righteous by its works.
Admitting you're wrong is fine ,and actually a step in the right direction.
Robbie...
Originally posted by karoly aczelno its not hard, for we remain open minded in what others profess as is their prerogative but we ourselves have our own consciences and our own evaluations. The statement that i continually give, a statement of Christ, determines what we are prepared to accept and what we are not, once you understand this statement then you shall understand why we accept certain things and why we reject others. This of course is not merely limited to beliefs, but to practices as well, as the reference to works in the statement clearly indicates.
I guess whether you're open-minded is kinda hard for a JW to answer. Dont worry about it.
Admitting you're wrong is fine ,and actually a step in the right direction.
Robbie...
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThis is a oxymoron. You cannot be open minded if christ (or his representative in the higher levels of JW) say what you can accept or not.
no its not hard, for we remain open minded in what others profess as is their prerogative but we ourselves have our own consciences and our own evaluations. The statement that i continually give, a statement of Christ, determines what we are prepared to accept and what we are not,
You've just admitted that you are not open minded. Good enough for me.
Originally posted by FabianFnasi see, so now we must accept every practice and premise in order to jump through your fiery hoop of open-mindedness, then you shall explain, why my freedom to exercise my conscience must be subject to your dictates, if you dont mind.
This is a oxymoron. You cannot be open minded if christ (or his representative in the higher levels of JW) say what you can accept or not.
You've just admitted that you are not open minded. Good enough for me.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOf course, it's self evidence.
i see, so now we must accept every practice and premise in order to jump through your fiery hoop of open-mindedness, then you shall explain, why my freedom to exercise my conscience must be subject to your dictates, if you dont mind.
If you let other dictate what to accept and what not to accept, then you cannot be open minded. Then your mind is closed to everything that sholdn't be accepted by other people, in your case, the top of JW cult.
There is a list of dos and don'ts that you, as a member of the cult, must obay. Like not vote, not take blood from others, not celebrate Thanksgiving, not... (well, you've read the list yourself). If you obey this list, then you're a good JW culter, otherwise not. This list is not debatable, it's hard rules. To be open minded enough to do things that is not permitted by this list, is out of the question. You defend this list, your'e closed minded. To accept this list as a good JW culter, then you're open minded.
You, robbie, accept this list as a whole, like it is the law of good JW cultists, therefore you're a closed minded good JW culter.
Obvious, isn't it? This is my explanation you asked for.
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Originally posted by FabianFnasthis is just a piece of sensationalist bumf, its empty rhetoric and says practically nothing, plus its built on a false premise and a list of dos and donts that are inaccurate as they are in some instances ludicrous. If you really want to know what Jehovahs witnesses believe you must visit the official website, but hey i doubt that would suit your agenda. now you shall answer the question,
Of course, it's self evidence.
If you let other dictate what to accept and what not to accept, then you cannot be open minded. Then your mind is closed to everything that sholdn't be accepted by other people, in your case, the top of JW cult.
There is a list of dos and don'ts that you, as a member of the cult, must obay. Like not vote, not take blo sed minded good JW culter.
Obvious, isn't it? This is my explanation you asked for.
WHY SHOULD MY FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE BE SUBJECT TO YOUR DICTATES?
if you are honest you shall answer this question. i hold that you have the right as a free moral agent to exercise your conscience, you will now tell the forum why mine should be subject to your prejudices and dictates. If you do not, nor will not, then i hold that you are guilty of hypocrisy for the very same charge that you would level against me, you are guilty of yourself. I call the forum to witness against you.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou say two things that are mutually exclusive. (1) that you are open-minded, and (2) You folllow the words that christ dictates. This makes you close-minded and violates (1). I just point this out. I'm not more than the messanger. I'm not repsonsible what you're saying.
this is just a piece of sensationalist bumf, its empty rhetoric and says practically nothing, plus its built on a false premise and a list of dos and donts that are inaccurate as they are in some instances ludicrous. If you really want to know what Jehovahs witnesses believe you must visit the official website, but hey i doubt that would suit your a ...[text shortened]... ou would level against me, you are guilty of yourself. I call the forum to witness against you.
You pointed out yourself that you are close-minded. Proof: You discard the evolution theory. Why? Because your elders in JW cult said so. Are they trustworthy? Answer: http://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4HPEA_svSE252SE252&q=jehowas+witnesses+child+molestation
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wrong, oh you are soooooooo wrong, for what i do is up to me, what others do is up to them, i hold that you as a free moral agent may do as you please, how more open minded can i be than that? You have your conscience and i have mine. Even before i became a Christian i never bought the evolutionary hypothesis, and i see even less reason to buy it now. The fact that it is thought that whales came from the sea, evolved on land and then returned to the sea, leaving behind their nearest relative the aquatic dear is enough to convince anyone that this hypothesis is more sensational than even the most miraculous event recorded in the gospels! It is to laugh, ha ha and a hee hee!
And seeing that you never had the honesty and integrity to answer my question with a simple ,'yes you are correct i do not have the jurisdiction to dictate to the leanings of your conscience, i really dont know what i was thinking', is evidence enough of your motives - i thank you for it!
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIs it your elders that say that whales came from the see and entered the land? Tell them that they don't know the evolutionary theory, and that you on the other hand is open-minded enough and accept the greatest part of the creation, i.e. the evolution theory.
wrong, oh you are soooooooo wrong, for what i do is up to me, what others do is up to them, i hold that you as a free moral agent may do as you please, how more open minded can i be than that? You have your conscience and i have mine. Even before i became a Christian i never bought the evolutionary hypothesis, and i see even less reason to buy it n ...[text shortened]... an even the most miraculous event recorded in the gospels! It is to laugh, ha ha and a hee hee!
Remember, I'm not the one to blame. I just repeated your own words and drew conclusions of your statements.
Either you're open-minded, or you're not. You are close-minded, because you have to live after the JW culters do- and dont-list. And do.
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Originally posted by FabianFnasactually no, i heard it on a program on television about whaling in Newfoundland Canada, as far as i am aware the scientist in the boat was in fact collecting core samples from Whales. There was no indication that he was an Elder.
Is it your elders that say that whales came from the see and entered the land? Tell them that they don't know the evolutionary theory, and that you on the other hand is open-minded enough and accept the greatest part of the creation, i.e. the evolution theory.
Remember, I'm not the one to blame. I just repeated your own words and drew conclusions of yo u are close-minded, because you have to live after the JW culters do- and dont-list. And do.
You really need to embrace the concept of individual freedom of conscience, its not so hard once you realise that everyone is a free moral agent and that they cannot be pigeon-holed, labelled, categorised and filed away under the prejudices of your filing system.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieDid the whales come from Wales or what are you saying? Aren't you mixing things up too much? 😀
actually no, i heard it on a program on television about whaling in Newfoundland Canada, as far as i am aware the scientist in the boat who was in fact collecting core samples from Whales. There was no indication that he was an Elder.
You really need to embrace the concept of individual freedom of conscience, its not so hard once you realise th ...[text shortened]... e pigeon-holed, labelled, categorised and filed away under the prejudices of your filing system.
Go read some basics about evolutionary theory, and be open-minded about your new knowldege. Hide the book from your elders, and they will not know about it.
For short - be open-minded in the future. If they don't let you, leave them.