Young Earth Viewpoint of Geology

Originally posted by FMF
This reminds me just a little of Dasa accusing people, who don't teach their sons and daughters that his belief system is the only "true" one, of being "child abusers".

It is funny how so many comments people make remind me of what others already rationalized somewhere in the history of the Bible.

In Zephaniah 1:12 the cynical people said - " ... Jehovah will not do good, Nor will He do evil."

In the argots of the modern culture -- "Whatever !!"

Originally posted by jaywill
It is funny how so many comments people make remind me of what others already rationalized somewhere in the history of the Bible.

There must be some sort of psychological 'playbook' that people like you and Dasa work from, consciously or subconsciously. It's ugly when it comes from Dasa. And it's ugly when it come from you. It's a glimpse into a mindset you two have in common I suppose.

Originally posted by FMF
This reminds me just a little of Dasa accusing people, who don't teach their sons and daughters that his belief system is the only "true" one, of being "child abusers".

Maybe Dasa is right on this point. It is not likely someone could be wrong on everything.

Originally posted by FMF
There must be some sort of psychological 'playbook' that people like you and Dasa work from, consciously or subconsciously. It's ugly when it comes from Dasa. And it's ugly when it come from you. It's a glimpse into a mindset you two have in common I suppose.

I won't speak on behalf of Dasa.

I will speak on my behalf. And in my situation I am REPEATING what one Jesus of Nazareth spoke.

Now wax eloguent and tell us all about how the attitude of Jesus is far inferior to your own in these matters.

How about Maybe He was just telling you the TRUTH ? I take no delight in this. I practice here what I teach.

I lose my temper around kids I have custody of. And it causes me to go to my knees and seek forgivenes and guidance from God.

You have a better way to live ? Go live it. Kids drive me to God for guidance and wisdom from God.

And what is it anyway that makes you think a big sinner like you is above being given a faithful and honest warning ?

Originally posted by jaywill
I won't speak on behalf of Dasa.

I didn't say you do or will or should. I just commented that you and he appear to utilize similar ugly tactics sometimes.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Maybe Dasa is right on this point. It is not likely someone could be wrong on everything.

You think that "maybe Dasa is right" when he accuses people who don't submit to the authority of the Vedas of being "child abusers"? How can that be your point of view?

Originally posted by FMF
I didn't say you do or will or should. I just commented that you and he appear to utilize similar ugly tactics sometimes.

It is not UGLY to give a man a faithful repetition of what Christ spoke.
You will have to pen the "UGLINESS" on Jesus in my case.

Not all exhortation from Christ have three repetitions. The one under discussion is repeated three times -

Mark 9:42; Matthew 18:6; Luke 17:2

I repeated the teaching. You will have to charge Mark 9:42; Matt. 18:6; Luke 17:2 with this "ugliness". Go ahead and do that if you wish.

I think it would be "ugly" to knowingly hide truth from God, which might help us all.

AT this point, SwissGambit, if you are there, I would like to repeat something someone of considerable spiritual adulthood taught me. I hope I never forget it. It has two parts. Both parts are important.

An older Christian once taught me in essence this:

1.) To rebuke someone is not easy. Any Christian who rebukes has to be pure in his motive, clean in his intention, pure in thought, pure in every method. To teach a rebuke is like surgery. The surgent has to have clean hands or else germs will get into the patient.

Don't think it is easy to rebuke anyone because you may introduce your own germs if you are not clean in your heart, in your motive, and in your thinking.

2.) The second part was even better -

On the other hand, he taught, if someone DOES rebuke you. Don't consider long and hard if they were pure or clean or proper to do so. Just humbly take it. And God will bless you.


This has helped me for many years. On one hand it is not an easy thing to adjust someone spiritually. But if someone does to me, don't over labor on whether they were qualified to or not. Just take it and God will bless me for my humility regardless.

Originally posted by jaywill
It is not UGLY to give a man a faithful repetition of what Christ spoke.
You will have to pen the "UGLINESS" on Jesus in my case.

It's ugly for an internet nobody to get all puffed up with his own religious certainties and then use them to question other people's parenting - even if they too are just internet nobodies, like me and SG. If you can't make your 'spiritual point' without sneering Dasa-like at the people you disagree with - and going for low blows at their children and/or their handling of their children, then you've lost the moral high ground you seem to want to ascribe to yourself. Ugly stuff jaywill. You may not want children to find their own spiritual path in their own way as they grow up, and instead inculcate them early on so as to presumably neutralize their faculties of choice if possible, but I hardly think that gives you licence to make insinuations about SG's raising of his children. Perhaps you should stick to talking about your own children and avoid these creepier parts of your rhetorical palette.

RJHind,

I don't think for now I have any more I want to write about the geology matter.

There is a website that I have participated in for years called Evolution Verses Creation, or something close to that.

We kicked around Genesis for so long and so much, whenever I start writing on it again I seem to lose steam.

ANYWAY ... some of the books which shaped my view I can mention for what it is worth to you:

1.) Earth's Earliest Ages by G.H. Pember.

2.) The Invisible War by Dr. Donald Barnhouse.

3.) The Life Study of Genesis by Witness Lee

4.) Without Form and Void by Arthur Custance.


Up to a certain time I decided that I really should read through a strong Young Earth exposition to hear it from "the horses mouth" so to speak. So I read through a book "The Early Earth" by Donald Whitcomb. He included in it a strong theological critique of the so called Gap Theory.

Though he has some good points, I think I remained favorably impressed with the logic of G.H. Pember's Old Earth understanding of "Earth's Earliest Ages".

I have heard Ken Hovind quite a bit. Anyway, whatever prompts us to dig deligently back into the word of God is not bad. I think the exposure of the church's arch enemy the Devil is crucial to understanding our enemies' motives and tactics.

That is all I have to write on this today. The Lord be with your spirit.

Originally posted by FMF
You think that "maybe Dasa is right" when he accuses people who don't submit to the authority of the Vedas of being "child abusers"? How can that be your point of view?

I was referring to jaywill's post when he asks, " Do I want to stumble these little ones from believing in Jesus Christ ?"

You said it reminded you of Dasa's attitude. So I said, "Maybe Dasa is right on this point..." I was thinking of the point of not wanting to stumble the little ones from not believeing in the truth. I understand I have the same idea of the truth as jaywill and both you and Dasa have other ideas of what is truth. But the Vedas and Islam had not been mentioned at that point. Obviously you should know I would not be referring to those false religions.

Originally posted by jaywill
Without you elaborating on the phrase "Baby Steps" I am not sure what you mean.

May I always be as a [b]"new born babe" desiring the pure milk of the word of God as the Apostle Peter exhorted - "As newborn babes, long for the guileless milk of the word in order that by it you may grow." ( 1 Peter 2:2)

I hope I NEVER lose that longing f ...[text shortened]... er " Do I want to stumble these little ones from believing in Jesus Christ ?"[/b]

"Jean-Luc...sometimes I think the only reason I come here is to listen to these wonderful speeches of yours..."
-Q, to Picard

You remind me of when I was a young child and used to 'hate' girls. I hoped I NEVER would lose it. But of course I inevitably did. Change is not always a bad thing, is it?

For me, this is not a contest to show off my spiritual maturity level. I enjoy the subject; I'm particularly fascinated with religious beliefs and their ability to affect logical thought.

But I think I am making spiritual progress. For me, spirituality is about finding your place in the world. Being here has motivated me to educate myself on a variety of subjects, like evolution, cosmology, philosophy, and history, including that of religions. I still have a lot to learn, but it's the journey that's important.

I think we all could use a little stumbling in our beliefs. Stumbling results from trying to walk. The people who aren't stumbling are usually the ones standing still.

Originally posted by jaywill
RJHind,

I don't think for now I have any more I want to write about the geology matter.

There is a website that I have participated in for years called Evolution Verses Creation, or something close to that.

We kicked around Genesis for so long and so much, whenever I start writing on it again I seem to lose steam.

ANYWAY ... some of ...[text shortened]... tics.

That is all I have to write on this today. The Lord be with your spirit.

I am not stuck to the view that the earth is a little over 6,000 years old. It could be 20,000 and I could fit it in with my view. However, I can't deal with an earth that is millions of years old. It would take a lot of convincing.

Originally posted by jaywill
AT this point, SwissGambit, if you are there, I would like to repeat something someone of considerable spiritual adulthood taught me. I hope I never forget it. It has two parts. Both parts are important.

An older Christian once taught me in essence this:

1.) To rebuke someone is not easy. Any Christian who rebukes has to be pure in his motive, clean ...[text shortened]... they were qualified to or not. Just take it and God will bless me for my humility regardless.

Still here. 🙂

My thinking is the opposite. Rebuking is easy - anyone can do it. Being wise enough to choose your rebukes carefully is hard. And absolutely consider the source. Do not accept rebuke without considering its validity, or you will be subject to the taunts of every troll that comes along. Some people are just haters and their opinions should have no heft.

Originally posted by FMF
It's ugly for an internet nobody to get all puffed up with his own religious certainties and then use them to question other people's parenting - even if they too are just internet nobodies, like me and SG. If you can't make your 'spiritual point' without sneering Dasa-like at the people you disagree with - and going for low blows at their children and/or their ...[text shortened]... alking about your own children and avoid these creepier parts of your rhetorical palette.

The disciples of Christ were told to teach "all things" that He Himself taught.

"Go therefore and disciple all the nations ... teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you ..." ( Matt. 28:19,20)

Though some things may upset people to hear, our Lord said to "to teach them to observe all things that I have commanded you ..." . His teaching about the stumbling of the little children is part of the "all things".

Furthermore the Apostle Paul instructed his co-worker to keep and instruct the new testament teaching "without partiality" or "without prejudice".

"I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus and the chosen angels that you keep these things without prejudice, doing nothing by way of partiality." (2 Timothy 5:21)


We simply have to sometimes endure the displeasure of those who resort to guilt by association or who simply feel that we should be more selective about what we teach.

The exhortation of Matthew 18:1-35 is part of my Lord's teaching. I pass it on as He has taught us to both ourselves live it and teach it to others.