Originally posted by FMFSo if you have no reason to think that he can't reveal himself to humanity , why do you think he can't have done it through the Bible? Also if you don't have reason to believe something it doesn't mean that it's not true.
I have never claimed to believe anything of the sort. He cannot reveal himself to anyone? When did I ever say that? I have no reason to think that God, if He exists and if He wants to, cannot reveal Himself to humanity. And I have no reason to believe He has revealed Himself to you.
Originally posted by FMFOn what basis do you accept or reject things?
I have no reason to accept that the things you claim about supernatural matters are true because...
[1] you offer assertions and repeated circular logic rather than persuasive evidence, and
[2] propagating your extraordinary notions appears to put your intellectual abilities to properly put forward and explain them under such duress that you end up sound ...[text shortened]... in mysterious ways" does not adequately explain or excuse your performance here day in day out.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkThe Bible seems man made and far-fetched to me. Same goes for the Koran and the Vedas and the Torah. God "can" have revealed Himself through these (or others for that matter) but I have no reason to think He did. In fact, they seem so bodged (as divine revelations might be expected to go), that to me, they've got humanity's parochial fingerprints all over them.
So if you have no reason to think that he can't reveal himself to humanity , why do you think he can't have done it through the Bible?
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkOn the basis of evidence and the plausibility of the logic and arguments that proponents of those 'things'. But I can't choose to believe some theory about supernatural matters and beings based on unbelievable "evidence". I lost my Christian faith after a lengthy process of realizing that the evidence didn't add up and my former certainties had worn or faded away.
On what basis do you accept or reject things?
Originally posted by FMFBut anything that seems far fetched to you may still be true.
The Bible seems man made and far-fetched to me. Same goes for the Koran and the Vedas and the Torah. God "can" have revealed Himself through these (or others for that matter) but I have no reason to think He did. In fact, they seem so bodged (as divine revelations might be expected to go), that to me, they've got humanity's parochial fingerprints all over them.
And something may still be true regardless of whether you believe it or not.
Surely if God revealed himself to humanity, any such record would have humanity's fingerprints over them. That should not be surprising at all.
Originally posted by FMFSo what evidence and plausibility of logic is your your gut feeling that there may be a God based upon?
On the basis of evidence and the plausibility of the logic and arguments that proponents of those 'things'. But I can't choose to believe some theory about supernatural matters and beings based on unbelievable "evidence". I lost my Christian faith after a lengthy process of realizing that the evidence didn't add up and my former certainties had worn or faded away.
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Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
The Bible
The Koran
The Vedas
The Talmud (Torah)
Guru Granth Sahib
Why have you chosen the Bible as evidence of God's revelation, as opposed to the other religious writings in the above list? You were not around when 'any' of the above were written, so on what basis do you build your evidence that the Bible alone carries this revelation?
The Koran is the product of one man over the course of 30 years. He first became suicidal when he received these messages and feared that he was getting them from demons. Two women in his life persuaded him to keep going.
Comparing the character of Jesus with that of Mohammed in a very SAD and lopsided exposure of a violent and lustful man - Mohammed as compared to the gloriously moral Jesus.
The Koran recommends the Bible in some places.
It is not the other way around.
Mohammed updated his revelations to rationalize his behavior at times.
The rule for Moslems was FOUR wives as a limit. When Mohammed wanted MORE (nine) he had to get new "revelation" from Allah to justify his greed.
(That's right. Solomon in the Bible had 600 wives and 300 girfriends. And we see how they ruined his testimony. The Bible does not always TEACH what it RECORDS as having happened.)
See the YouTube videos of Dr. David Wood.
One of these wives the "prophet" Mohammed consummated in marriage with, was still a youngster, a true CHILD female.
I am trying to read the Koran out of respect for Moslems, It is NOT easy. The feeling of reading the Koran to me is horrible. Bias? Maybe some, but I don't think all. The sensation of reading through the Koran is not pleasant to my spirit, not peaceful to my mind like reading the Bible.
Thirty years of sayings of a man (who first thought he was hearing from demons in a cave) with the 40 different authors of the Bible spanning 1,600 years.
The Vedas I do not know. I think that the span of their writing is similar to the long time it took to compile the library of the Bible.
I will not comment too much on the Vedas which i do not know. But I think you have about a million gods in the Vedas as compared to the ONE God in the Bible.
I do not think that in terms of specific geographical places detailed the Vedas compare with the Bible. The Bible is by no means a "one upon a time in a far off land" kind of book. Thousands places are specified. Thousands of names of people, towns, are specified.
But I do not know the Vedas at all. The need to HAVE to know the Vedas has never yet occurred to me. Out of respect, I think one day I'll look into the Vedas.
The Talmud (Torah) is the Bible (the first five books of Moses) so it is included in the Hebrew canon. The Bible contains the Torah.
Guru Granh Sahib, i know nothing about yet.
Do his disciples claim that he rose from the dead ?
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkIt's just a gut feeling. Are you going to spend three pages pretending to have forgotten that we discussed this already in detail only a week or two ago, and then another five pages pretending not to know what a gut feeling is?
So what evidence and plausibility of logic is your your gut feeling that there may be a God based upon?
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkThat something is or isn't surprising to you at all is neither here nor there to me. You are asking me about what I find plausible; we are not trying to change what you believe.
But anything that seems far fetched to you may still be true.
And something may still be true regardless of whether you believe it or not.
Surely if God revealed himself to humanity, any such record would have humanity's fingerprints over them. That should not be surprising at all.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkYep. So, despite what I think, I acknowledge that what the Hindus or the Muslims or the Sikhs believe may still be true too. As far as I can make out - as a Christian - you do not agree with this. I suppose this makes me more open minded than you.
But anything that seems far fetched to you may still be true.
And something may still be true regardless of whether you believe it or not.
Originally posted by sonshipIf both you and I are wrong, and Islam is, after all, the true revelation of God, then your personal preference for Christianity matters not one whit.
The Koran is the product of one man over the course of 30 years. He first became suicidal when he received these messages and feared that he was getting them from demons. Two women in his life persuaded him to keep going.
Comparing the character of Jesus with that of Mohammed in a very SAD and lopsided exposure of a violent and lustful man - Mohammed as compared to the gloriously moral Jesus.
Originally posted by sonshipIt sounds to me like you should stick with Christianity, especially if it gives you a feeling of purpose in life and offers you reassurance and solace.
I am trying to read the Koran out of respect for Moslems, It is NOT easy. The feeling of reading the Koran to me is horrible. Bias? Maybe some, but I don't think all. The sensation of reading through the Koran is not pleasant to my spirit, not peaceful to my mind like reading the Bible.
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Originally posted by FMFSo you are saying two contradictory statements can both be true? How open minded of you...
Yep. So, despite what I think, I acknowledge that what the Hindus or the Muslims or the Sikhs believe may still be true too. As far as I can make out - as a Christian - you do not agree with this. I suppose this makes me more open minded than you.
Koran says Jesus didn't die on the cross, Bible says he did. They can't both be right.