Zarathushtra

Originally posted by stocken
What I've always wondered about Nietzcshe's überman is if it's by birth, or if we can affect our lives to become the überman. ???

I don't think heredity enters into it. It is an act of self-overcoming.

Originally posted by vistesd
Especially Lao Tse! And Chuang Tse.

I have tea with Lao Tse every so often. He told me that Nietzsche was unfortunate not to have had the opportunity to practise tai chi.

Originally posted by stocken
What I've always wondered about Nietzcshe's überman is if it's by birth, or if we can affect our lives to become the überman. ???

Or if I'm having the wrong idea entirely. Is it a way of living or being?

Well, Nietzsche is subject to a wide range of interpretation. My own spin is that it represents an ideal toward which we can strive, but in the sense of a limit that we never reach...

Somewhere I think N lists the traits of the ubermensch--things like spontaneous courage, pride, dignity, generosity--I'll have to see if I can find it.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I have tea with Lao Tse every so often. He told me that Nietzsche was unfortunate not to have had the opportunity to practise tai chi.

Funny, he told me the same thing!

Originally posted by vistesd
Well, Nietzsche is subject to a wide range of interpretation. My own spin is that it represents an ideal toward which we can strive, but in the sense of a limit that we never reach...

Some sort of apotheosis? I think not.

Originally posted by vistesd
Funny, he told me the same thing!

He understands our limits.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I have tea with Lao Tse every so often. He told me that Nietzsche was unfortunate not to have had the opportunity to practise tai chi.

"I would believe only in a god who could dance. And when I saw my devil I found him serious, thorough, profound, and solemn: it was the spirit of gravity - through him all things fall. "

--Nietzsche

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Some sort of apotheosis? I think not.

Explain?

Originally posted by vistesd
"I would believe only in a god who could dance."

This sentence was enough for me to realise that Friedrich had something important to say,

Originally posted by vistesd
Explain?

"Ideal", end goal, vs. infinite flowering.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
"Ideal", end goal, vs. infinite flowering.

Yes, but which? (I perhaps used the word "ideal" badly?)

EDIT: I think once we say we've "arrived," we err...

Originally posted by vistesd
"I would believe only in a god who could dance. And when I saw my devil I found him serious, thorough, profound, and solemn: it was the spirit of gravity - through him all things fall. "

--Nietzsche

Yea, I recognize Zarathustra. Pure is his eye, and no loathing lurketh about his mouth. Goeth he not along like a dancer?

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I hereby draw the silly conclusion that Nietzsche's version of Zarathustra was his idea of a God. Because, the saint asked if he doesn't prounce along like a dancer.

Originally posted by vistesd
Yes, but which? (I perhaps used the word "ideal" badly?)

OK. My Superman is someone who sees things for what they are and consequently can overstep the limits imposed by binary perception. After that, creativity is theoretically boundless.

Originally posted by stocken
Yea, I recognize Zarathustra. Pure is his eye, and no loathing lurketh about his mouth. Goeth he not along like a dancer?

---

I hereby draw the silly conclusion that Nietzsche's version of Zarathustra was his idea of a God. Because, the saint asked if he doesn't prounce along like a dancer.

I hereby draw the silly conclusion that Nietzsche's version of Zarathustra was his idea of a God.

Hmmm…. I’m not so sure that’s entirely silly—daring, perhaps… It certainly would be a deep symbolic reading of it. It’s been too long—I’m going to have to break the book out to keep up with you here.

N did say something like: “If there were gods, how could I stand not to be one?”

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
OK. My Superman is someone who sees things for what they are and consequently can overstep the limits imposed by binary perception. After that, creativity is theoretically boundless.

I think we're following the same line here. I would say that we should at least not impose the boundaries unecessarily--and perhaps need to strike at them when they seem to impose themselves...

I need to let this percolate for awhile. Thank you.

(Thanks to both of you for getting me back into this line of thought....)