1. Paonia, Colorado
    Joined
    21 Nov '04
    Moves
    170450
    31 Jul '07 04:40
    http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

    Watch part 1 and then talk amongst yourselves. 🙂
  2. Earth
    Joined
    20 Oct '06
    Moves
    2190
    31 Jul '07 06:14
    Originally posted by CliffLandin
    http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

    Watch part 1 and then talk amongst yourselves. 🙂
    I just could not go past five minutes. I have a serious problem with watching children in pain. I am sorry, but I could not do it. I know suffering is happening all the time, but I just can't watch it.

    I will pray for us all. Maybe God will forgive us for our actions or inaction.

    O Thou kind Lord! These lovely children are the handiwork of the fingers of Thy might and the wondrous signs of Thy greatness. O God! Protect these children, graciously assist them to be educated and enable them to render service to the world of humanity. O God! These children are pearls, cause them to be nurtured within the shell of Thy loving-kindness.
  3. Joined
    03 Sep '06
    Moves
    9895
    31 Jul '07 10:24
    Originally posted by CliffLandin
    http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

    Watch part 1 and then talk amongst yourselves. 🙂
    I have seen part one, look at Thread 57539. But of course it is more clear here.

    But I have comments at what was said just before part 1. The speaker (I don't know who he is) , is talking about religions, but the description he said doesn't match all religion. At least it doesn't match my religion (Islam). I think he was talking about Christianity. So I don't accept his generalization.

    I'm in the middle of part 2. And so far so good. I don't believe that Osama Ben Laden or the 6 still living hijackers have anything to do with 9/11. It is myth that was made for political and economical reasons. But the simple American who go to the Church every sunday will never think that his priest is deceiving him about those Muslim monsters. Or that the US goverment could organize such a thing.
  4. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    31 Jul '07 11:47
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    I don't believe that Osama Ben Laden or the 6 still living hijackers have anything to do with 9/11.
    Do you think that Osama would not take part in or plan such terrorist activity or that he simply wasn't the master mind behind that particular event? He has definitely voiced his support for the hijackers you cant deny that.
  5. Joined
    03 Sep '06
    Moves
    9895
    31 Jul '07 11:59
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Do you think that Osama would not take part in or plan such terrorist activity or that he simply wasn't the master mind behind that particular event? He has definitely voiced his support for the hijackers you cant deny that.
    Did you see the movie? I don't think you did.

    I believe Osama was an agent of the CIA in part of his life. I believe he joined them to form a force aganist Russia in Afganestan, and when his rule there was ended, CIA turned aganist him, to support the new set of plans, Replaing the Russian existance in Afganestan with US one.

    So he could have some share by his vocal propaganda, but he can't be the master mind. Actually it has nothing to do with any Islamic organization at all.
  6. Joined
    03 Sep '06
    Moves
    9895
    31 Jul '07 12:00
    Originally posted by CliffLandin
    http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

    Watch part 1 and then talk amongst yourselves. 🙂
    After watching this I failed to find a significant relationship between part 1, and parts 2, and 3. It is clear that the theory he is discussing in parts 2, and 3, has nothing to do with religion.
  7. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    31 Jul '07 12:44
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    Did you see the movie? I don't think you did.
    I dont have good enough internet access to watch the movie.

    I believe Osama was an agent of the CIA in part of his life. I believe he joined them to form a force aganist Russia in Afganestan, and when his rule there was ended, CIA turned aganist him, to support the new set of plans, Replaing the Russian existance in Afganestan with US one.
    So he could have some share by his vocal propaganda, but he can't be the master mind. Actually it has nothing to do with any Islamic organization at all.

    I am still not sure what you are saying. Are you saying Osama's organization (Al-Qaeda) is not Islamic? Are you saying he is not the real leader of Al-Qaeda? Are you saying Al-Qaeda had nothing to do with 9/11?
    What about other terrorist activity such as the London bombings? Do you blame the CIA for that too?
  8. Joined
    03 Sep '06
    Moves
    9895
    31 Jul '07 12:554 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I dont have good enough internet access to watch the movie.

    [b]I believe Osama was an agent of the CIA in part of his life. I believe he joined them to form a force aganist Russia in Afganestan, and when his rule there was ended, CIA turned aganist him, to support the new set of plans, Replaing the Russian existance in Afganestan with US one.
    So he co about other terrorist activity such as the London bombings? Do you blame the CIA for that too?
    [/b]The movie answer all your questions so I think you should see it.


    Are you saying Osama's organization (Al-Qaeda) is not Islamic?

    When Russa invaded a Muslim country, Muslim in this country should defent themselves. And Muslims all over the world should help them.

    Osama Ben Laden wanted to fight the russian to a defend a Muslim country.

    US wanted to cause problems in Afghanestan for the russian.

    The objectives of both sides did meet, so they co-operated togather to form Al Qaeda, while each has in his own targets on mind. Al Quaeda was like the army of Afganestan during the war of Russian. It was a regulated war, not a terrorist operations.

    But after the russian withdrawn from Afganestan, the role of Al Qaeda was ended for US, and that is why Osama turned to be the Enemy. Because his objectives are not 100% supported by US.

    For Osama himself I don't have clear picture about his position now. But what I'm sure of that Al Qaeda are not behind both 9/11 or London's bombings. They are so week to do so specially 9/11.

    9/11 with the senario described cann't be made without a strong interanal support (even of if Al Qaeda is envolved).

    US media pictured Al Qaeda as world wide terrorism group, while all the activities of Al Qaeda was consentrated in Afganestan before 9/11. And to honest I no more trust any news that make Al Qaeda invloced in every event happen.

    If the US spent a lot of money to destory a very week orginization like Al Qaeda, and it remains so powerfull like the media say. This can't be true.

    And again try to watch the movie.
  9. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    31 Jul '07 13:031 edit
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    The movie answer all your questions so I think you should see it.
    As I said, I cant watch the movie.

    What about all the Muslims who speak out in favor of terrorist activity including 9/11 and the London bombings? Do you think that they have also been fooled into thinking that they were carried out by Muslims?

    If you know so little about Osama, why are you so ready to believe what a movie tells you? You dont even seem to know whether Osama is Muslim.
    Also if 9/11 was carried out by the CIA then a large number of Muslims seem to support the 9/11 terrorists and thus the CIA. Isnt that interesting?
  10. Joined
    03 Sep '06
    Moves
    9895
    31 Jul '07 13:58
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    As I said, I cant watch the movie.

    What about all the Muslims who speak out in favor of terrorist activity including 9/11 and the London bombings? Do you think that they have also been fooled into thinking that they were carried out by Muslims?

    If you know so little about Osama, why are you so ready to believe what a movie tells you? You dont even s ...[text shortened]... e number of Muslims seem to support the 9/11 terrorists and thus the CIA. Isnt that interesting?
    Most Mulims I know since the first day after 9/11 don't believe that Muslim did it. And so goes for London bombings. They don't believe it as Islamic actions because nothings support it in Islamic law. And also they believe that it was made up to make you hate Muslims and Islam.

    We as Muslims don't think about this, and it is not part of our Agenda (I'm talking about Individuals not coutnries, most of the governments in Islamic countries doesn't represent their people). I didn't meet any Muslim who believe that Muslims were behinde 9/11.

    So if some Muslims favor those terrorist activities, they do that from other points of view rather than Islamic one's, It is more political one.

    Do you think that they have also been fooled into thinking that they were carried out by Muslims?

    Do you really think that Muslims are happy when non-muslims die. They you look at is totaly different from our prespective. Most of Muslim countires suffered and still suffiring from the continues intervention in their life from the west represented in the US. We as Muslims suffer from the picture portrayed for us from US.

    And US in continues stress so that its picture between people is like the monster who wants to destroy their life.

    But that is all with the US government, not people. Muslims live in US and they try to spread their message without a problem. And US people live in muslim counties without a problem. But don't expect muslims to be happy when US army kills 750000 of their Muslim brothers in Iraq alone (don't tell me about Muslims killing Muslims, it is another myth like 9/11 to keep the war going).

    Why don't you look at Muslim side and see how many innocent Muslim was killed without any reason. The majority of death since 9/11 is among Muslims. They are the only group of people that suffere all over the world because of their faith, although the always accused to be monsters and they are source of divel.


    If you know so little about Osama, why are you so ready to believe what a movie tells you? You dont even seem to know whether Osama is Muslim.

    Osama is a Muslim. Where did I say I don't know he is a Muslim. All what I say US give the US people a picture of Osama as the only representation of Islam which is not true. Osama doesn't represent Islam.

    If you know so little about Osama, why are you so ready to believe what a movie tells you?

    How are you going to discuss what the movie say if you didn't see it.

    I believe what the movie said before I see the movie. It is just a visualization of what I know.

    And who said I know little about Osama, all what I said that I don't know his position now, he might be dead by now, and all what is said about him is fake. If the US militry forces are not able to determine his position and get infomration about him (as they say), how can I know his position.

    --------------------------------

    BTY: The first part of the Movie which is the target of the thread talks about the bagen origins of the Christianity. I though you might want to know.
  11. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    31 Jul '07 14:09
    I have several Muslim friends and all of them believe that Muslims were behind both 9/11 and the London bombings and a number of other terrorist acts around the world. They do not think that those who are behind it (including Osama) are good Muslims but they do think that they are Muslims. For you to claim that you do not know any Muslims who believe that makes me think you are lying because I am sure you know a lot of Muslims and at least some of them must believe that. In fact you are the first Muslim I have heard who has denied it.
  12. Joined
    03 Sep '06
    Moves
    9895
    31 Jul '07 14:233 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I have several Muslim friends and all of them believe that Muslims were behind both 9/11 and the London bombings and a number of other terrorist acts around the world. They do not think that those who are behind it (including Osama) are good Muslims but they do think that they are Muslims. For you to claim that you do not know any Muslims who believe that ...[text shortened]... some of them must believe that. In fact you are the first Muslim I have heard who has denied it.
    I'm not the only Muslim one who do deny it. My be I was not accurate, but when I discussed 9/11 whith any Muslim we came to the same result, that Al Qaeda didn't do it. I said "most of the Muslims I know" because I didn't discuss 9/11 with every one I know. Many muslims in my country don't know what 9/11. Many of my relatives don't know where US is, they don't have a particular idea about it.

    I don't need to lie. I might be not accurate, but I will not lie.
  13. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    31 Jul '07 18:031 edit
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    I'm not the only Muslim one who do deny it. My be I was not accurate, but when I discussed 9/11 whith any Muslim we came to the same result, that Al Qaeda didn't do it. I said "most of the Muslims I know" because I didn't discuss 9/11 with every one I know. Many muslims in my country don't know what 9/11. Many of my relatives don't know where US is, they do lar idea about it.

    I don't need to lie. I might be not accurate, but I will not lie.
    This reminds me of all the African Americans who insisted that OJ was innocent. It is hard to imagine that someone you view should be like you in terms of race, culture, religious affiliation, etc., could actually wind up on the side of evil. I think it only a natural reaction.
  14. Joined
    03 Sep '06
    Moves
    9895
    31 Jul '07 18:231 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    This reminds me of all the African Americans who insisted that OJ was innocent. It is hard to imagine that someone you view should be like you in terms of race, culture, religious affiliation, etc., could actually wind up on the side of evil. I think it only a natural reaction.
    What do you mean by natural reaction, and what evil side I wind up with? I see you are trying to take the attention a way of what the thread actualy is about and convert it to a personal attack on me.

    Instead of thinking about the origins of your own faith which you build your life over, you turn to prove me wrong.

    It is up to you, but that doesn't change anything and prove anything.

    If Osama realy has anything to do with 9/11 then I will with all my heart aganist him. But I don't believe so. Not because he is Muslim, but because he as not able to do it. So what evil side are you talking about. You have to search for the true evil side before throwing words here and here.

    unfortunately you insist on keeping your eyes blind and you keep circulating in an endless chain of forge believes.

    I don't see love you are talking about all the time in your post. I don't think you love your enemies.

    EDIT: Many americans are also believing that Osama has nothing to do with 9/11 (Including those in this Movie). I wonder if you consider them in the evil side as well. I think some of them might be Christians too.
  15. Joined
    23 Sep '05
    Moves
    11774
    31 Jul '07 20:241 edit
    Originally posted by CliffLandin
    http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

    Watch part 1 and then talk amongst yourselves. 🙂
    Has this film been posted in debates? Because it really bitchslaps
    religion, politics and capitalism (three of debates most popular subjects I
    believe) to the point that anyone seeing it can't possibly still believe that
    authoritative institutions and elaborate political and economical models
    like the ones we're forced to accept now is really necessary. This film is
    the best piece of work I've seen in a long time as it deals with hard facts
    and is not afraid to tell them, while at the same time encouraging you to
    think for yourselves and not necessarily accept the film as absolute truth.
    It merely invites you to take a look at the sources rather than accept
    interpretations from popular media, religious leaders, political leaders,
    business leader, leaders, leaders, leaders...

    We really don't need leaders, and it's beautiful how this film clearly
    demonstrates that most of the problems in the world today that aren't of
    a clear human nature is a direct result of leadership empowered by
    concealed lies; manipulation of the masses. I hope a lot of people
    get to see this and especially get the message; that we're all beautiful
    and powerful beings by our very nature and we're really much stronger
    and more independent than the people in power would have us believe.
    And this is what unites us all, no matter where we come from or what our
    history may be. It's the single biggest threat to governments and
    controlling institutions, and that's why we are constantly fed with fear and
    distrust for "the others". It serves those in power well if we do.

    Spiritual believes is a very personal thing, and when we allow ourselves
    to be told what to believe, feel and think, especially when it contradicts
    the reality as we see it; experience it, we give away the most important
    part of us; that which makes us powerful and independent in the first
    place, our unique perspective on life. We should cherish this and
    celebrate it in others as it gives a more complete picture of human
    nature and the world we live in. When we supress others through
    institutional means, we also kill parts of ourselves in that we hold back
    a truth (whatever it may be - how horrible or insecure it makes us
    feel).

    Beautiful film. Just beautiful. 🙂
Back to Top