2010 Tri Nations

Israel Daggs try reminded me of Cullen - Very very good 🙂

I have to agree that blaming the ref when you lose is pretty poor. If there was a ref you liked (can you name a ref that reffed brilliantly during a SA loss in the last three years?), SA still would have lost and still would have had a man in the bin for foul play (not the yellow card incident but the spear tackle/late tackle (take your pick)).

Richie Mccaw plays to the ref, as any player does. I can't think of any refs that would have yellow carded a player after 3 infringements over 20 minutes. There were two in a row on the line - which is yellow card territory, but over time and the ball goes up the field and back, and the third is 20 mins later and on half way, no ref would have yellow carded. Also with the nature of the ruck if you are quick - you will get the ball, but there is still some grey matter in there, of entitlement. You don't know unless you try. SA won't even try.

Just because I know you want to see the ref slammed and a team labeled as cheats, i will play devils advocate.

SA cannot adapt to the new rules. Last year S/A cheated on purpose in rucks because they only gave away a free kick - this year they give away a penalty so they are scared of it more and have no other answer now when it comes to ruck ball. Cheaters last year and they were happy because they were winning - this year they are losing so it must be the other team are better cheaters? Last year I constantly became frustrated at the free kicks given away while we had the ball, just to slow us down. And if you take a scrum, well SA will just collapse it 10 times, until they get the dominant hit, and put us under pressure, and then we get free kicked or penalised, on our ball. Why would we want to do that? Cheating SA!

Also SA are indisciplined with constant physical illegal play, trying to be dominant by physicality, and the ref never seems to see any of it!!! ridiculous. They shouldn't be still on the field!

So hopefully you can see that last year SA only won because they cheated and didn't get caught - poor standard of ref's and rules - it had nothing to do with that SA were the better team. That would just be foolish to think.... 😛

I do have to admit, the ability of the AB's to hold onto the ball for more than a couple of phases is helpful to our cause 🙂

Originally posted by abigham
Israel Daggs try reminded me of Cullen - Very very good 🙂

I have to agree that blaming the ref when you lose is pretty poor. If there was a ref you liked (can you name a ref that reffed brilliantly during a SA loss in the last three years?), SA still would have lost and still would have had a man in the bin for foul play (not the yellow card incident bu he AB's to hold onto the ball for more than a couple of phases is helpful to our cause 🙂

FAIL.

ALL the teams slowed the ball down with those useless free kick rule changes. That was a bus crash...

What I'm worried about is that we have even the option of playing the ref - there shouldn't be the option. One set of rules for all games, thank you very much.

If we deserved yellow cards, why was Rene Ranger allowed to shoulder charge Fourie, not using his arms at all?


I'm sorry, but the boks are getting the short end of a sharp stick. It's ridiculous.


You seem to misread my posts. I'm not blaming the refs for our losses - our missed tackles are losing the games.
I would just like to see us getting a fair chance to play. Giving the ball to attacking sides like the All Blacks at every 50/50 situation and giving them free reign to slow our ball down and steal balls at will means the boks are not being given a fair chance.


I'm watching the Wallaby/boks game now, and already the Wallabies have been allowed to illegally steal 2 balls at rucks - one 5m from their goal line, brought down a maul, hands in the ruck on 3 of our balls and offside at a lineout maul.
All in the first 20 minutes! None blown up by the ref...

Christ! And now Pocock flies into a ruck and cynically plays a ball on the ground in the red zone, yet no card is even considered.

LOL and now the Wallabies score off a ball that went forward.




I rest my case, your honour.

And now BJ Botha gets a yellow for 'killing the ball' at a Wallaby ruck in the red zone, for a far less cynical offence that Pocock only got penalised for. BJ fell but tried to keep away from the ball, whereas Pocock cynically spoiled the ball.

The targeting of the Springboks continues...

Good on you Australia... Robbie has the guys adapting and playing thinking rugby. tenacity prevails and frustrates the thick bok forwards who just do not adapt!

The Aussies didn't take advantage of the sin binning of Fourie - would have if Robinson hadn't panicked and slipped the pass behind the man.
Steyn needed to go off much earlier.
Gittau and Elsom are the ones the ABs will need to watch.

One each cited for dangerous tackles. Laugh the Citing Commissioner is a Kiwi so I hope he deals to em both.

Devilliers needs to go if he can't get the message through but I can't fathom why John Smit can't settle his men down and cut the crazy stuff. Smit is a good player and well respected Captain.. he should be able to adapt to any refs interpretation.

Originally posted by Tirau Dan
Smit is a good player and well respected Captain.. he should be able to adapt to any refs interpretation.

LOL, we're long past that buddy.
Did you watch the game? It's unbelievable, nay laughable, how the boks are being targeted by refs. We are even past just the odd simple mistake by a 'he's just human' referee now...
The same type of offence gets a bok sin binned - who just got bumped over and made every effort to not touch the ball, yet the Wallaby who cycnically slapped the ball away gets off with only a penalty - not even a talking to.

Crazy stuff.

Teams like NZ and Aus are good enough to beat the boks on any day, why do the refs feel they need to help out?

Ref Paranoia will not win you games... adaptability and discipline may.
Yes and as a neutral I felt the refs in the three games so far have been okay though the first one should have sent botha off in the first half. That head but was the filthiest piece of thuggery seen on the pitch in years.

Originally posted by Tirau Dan
Ref Paranoia will not win you games... adaptability and discipline may.
Yes and as a neutral I felt the refs in the three games so far have been okay though the first one should have sent botha off in the first half. That head but was the filthiest piece of thuggery seen on the pitch in years.

LOL, your feelings towards me really do shine through here... way to keep an unbiased view.


"the refs in the three games so far have been okay"
George Clancy produced the worst refereeing display I have ever seen on a rugby pitch on Saturday, and that includes primary school games where a teacher from the opposition school had to blow the whistle...

I yearn for Stuart Dickinson after I saw Saturday's game.

Other can make up their own mind re refs it's not personal at all..all I'm saying is that your constant accusations regarding a worldwide conspiracy against SA wears thin especially when you lose and you never praise the opposition despite most of the posters here giving hearty praise to SA's power and wide skill.. sometime you could hold off the ref bashing.

Looking forward to the clash with Aussie now.. Aus have stuck the ABs in a third grade aussie rule club, completely open and shared with the aussie rule club.. training clashed with the local club so the ABs had to can their Captains run! The training pitch wasn't marked and no on was there to help: Wayne Smith just got on with it..They marked the pitch and got on with training saying.. we are grass-roots rugby players from modest backgrounds, we can handle this sort of thing..

Let's hope the pub has some beer after the game?
Prediction 32 - 18 to the ABs

Originally posted by Tirau Dan
Other can make up their own mind re refs it's not personal at all..all I'm saying is that your constant accusations regarding a worldwide conspiracy against SA wears thin especially when you lose and you never praise the opposition despite most of the posters here giving hearty praise to SA's power and wide skill.. sometime you could hold off the ref bashing.

Pah, it's not ref bashing, we as a country's rugby fans would just love to see us not ALWAYS get the bad decisions go against us.

I'd praise any side who beat us on a level playing field, unfortunately we don't know how good the AB's or Wallabies currently are...


What you are missing is the likes of Bobby Skinstad and almost all the commentators, plus the coaching staff and players are now complaining about this.
You don't see these guys usually laying it out there against a ref.

I can't believe they are playing the Bledisloe Cup game on an Aussie Rules pitch which has been condemned by players as too slippery. They wouldn't allow a team, run on it because an aussie rules clash...and apparently are going to core it and sand fill it to try to get traction. bad form Aus change the venue... sort it.

Originally posted by Crowley
I'd praise any side who beat us on a level playing field, unfortunately we don't know how good the AB's or Wallabies currently are...

I agree with you there. What very few people seem to realise is that the current Springbok team is very close to a 2nd string team:
-Fourie Du Preez out with shoulder injury
-Juan de Villiers being played out of position to compensate for JP Pietersen injury.
-Frans Steyn (@$5 knows why hes not playing)
-Juan Smith injury
-Heinrich Broussouw injury
-Beast (will hopefully start again soon)
-Where the hell is Bismarck??!!

This gives us 7 key players who made a huge impact in last years tri nations.
Combined wih the fact that the AB's historically peak a year too early for the world cup (and they certainly are peaking now?), means SA wont have too much too worry about come next year.
My prediction is that the World cup final will be between SA and AUS.

NZ is looking good because they have brought on a few new players each year for three years. The current crop are starting to gel now but a few have only just had debuts so there's no way on earth are they peaking now.. Watch out for new boy Israel Dagg, Tom Donnelly and Rene Ranger... most will never have heard of them. Recent additions like Corey Jane, Ben Franks and Owen Franks are going to be much better next year.

NZ are playing a dangerous game plan though which I call headless chicken rugby. Its rugby played at a silly pace that can be beaten by fast loosies and 5/8th and a fit pack. Robbie Deans knows it and has lifted the Aussies.. SA are static, stuck in the past and seem to be going backwards.

The real danger is that France and England are blooding new players, have shown no form at all but hands up who thinks they won't turn up to play next year and surprise the all the Southerners.

Im not trying to take anything away from NZ. I think that no team in the world could have beaten them the last 2 tests, as they were very near perfect.
I allso think that wih the current fixtures in the super 14, tri nations and european tours inbetween the coach that performs the best will be the one who mannages his players the best.
Currenly there is alot of SA players not playing with the sole purpose of being ready for the world cup next year. This in turn will give young and upcomings like Gio Aplon the chance to get some experience against the best there is.
Australia has been building for the past 4 years and currently have a very good, young team coming of age.
I wouldnt be surprised if they beat the AB's in one of their Tri-nations matches.
France and England will allways be teams to reckon with at the world cup, but I can't see England beating the AB's in NZ.

As for your statement of SA being stuck in the past: -not acurate.
Last year SA had Heinrich Brussouw to counter Richie Mackaw. This year he is injured. Sa is currently playing wihout a good fetcher in the loosies.
Add to that Fourie Du Preez's absence and it can be compared to an AB team without Mackaw and Carter.
-That would have a huge impact on NZ performance.

Originally posted by Lucardo
I agree with you there. What very few people seem to realise is that the current Springbok team is very close to a 2nd string team:
-Fourie Du Preez out with shoulder injury
-Juan de Villiers being played out of position to compensate for JP Pietersen injury.
-Frans Steyn (@$5 knows why hes not playing)
-Juan Smith injury
-Heinrich Broussouw injury
-Be ...[text shortened]... ry about come next year.
My prediction is that the World cup final will be between SA and AUS.

Yeah, these injuries and silly coaching/selection decisions are seriously making life more difficult for us than it has to be.


Du Preez is rated among his peers as the best rugby player in the world, and Brussouw is one of the best ball hunters rugby has seen in ages. Juan and Beast are also great players and I can see Juan's experience and Brussouw's speed dearly missed at the breakdowns.

Frans not being there is Snorre making a statement about overseas based players. Kirchner is OK, but he is just solid. We need that X-factor that Steyn brings.
Aplon should be in for Pieterson and Jean should be at his rightful place at inside center.
Bismarck is out with a neck injury I believe.


Once these players are back, positional BS sorted and someone can then just pass the bloody ball to Habana so he stops trying to get his hands on it with intercepts and we should OK again...

AND IF the refs will allow a level playing field with one set of rules for all teams...