Originally posted by dryhumpNeed a passing QB to win in the NFL. As for VY collegiate career, the guy was inconsistent, getting shut down in games, and then having absolutely great games like in the Rose Bowl.
That's not at all accurate. He led Florida to a national championship and Denver to the playoffs. Is there really some reason an nfl team couldn't run a spread option with him at quarterback? Especially if you didn't have to pay him much. The reason to not run the option is because your quarterback might get hurt. Get Tebow cheap, back him up with Vince Young or some other qb with happy feet and give it a shot.
And Jesus Christ, the combo of Tebow and VY is the worst combo possible. VY is the most over-rated NFL QB in the history of the NFL. I loved watching that awesome guy in college in his good games, but he is not an NFL fit, that's for sure. Undeniably, college success does not always translate to NFL success (see Tebow and VY).
Originally posted by dryhumpThere are secular and humanist reasons having nothing to do with a god, to prevent murder and theft.
How do you propose to take Christianity out of our laws? Murder and theft were in the ten commandments.
By the way, if you want to check out Humanist Manifestos, go to this link.
http://www.americanhumanist.org/
18 Jun 13
Originally posted by dryhumpSo are you saying you know better than the GMs and coaches throughout the NFL who think Tebow is not even 2nd string QB material, much less a starting QB?
Denver was 1-4 before tebow took over. . . . We're talking about Tim Tebow and the broncos. There are very few NFL teams who wouldn't have been significantly better with Peyton Manning at qb. He's not a great qb, but he's not as awful as many have claimed. Compare his stats with the Broncos to John Elway's first year and get back with me.
18 Jun 13
Originally posted by moon1969All I'm saying is the guy can be had cheap right now and if you run a spread option he might be worth something to you. I don't think he's a good qb and I said that early on. I don't think he's as awful as some have made him out to be. His stats and Elway's states are pretty comparable through their first 14 games. Does that mean Tebow is Elway? Of course not, but it's worth noting. Also, he might put some butts in the seats.
So are you saying you know better than the GMs and coaches throughout the NFL who think Tebow is not even 2nd string QB material, much less a starting QB?
18 Jun 13
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperI would argue that game managing would be even more important in that situation. Short passes and a strong running game to control the clock and keep a high scoring opposing offense off the field. Of course, I could just be dangerously old fashioned. It should be said that I don't have a problem with CK starting, I just didn't like the way Harbaugh handled it.
The short answer is because you score less points. Sure, you can get away with it more when you have a dominant Defense, but it's still not ideal.
How would game managing have worked out after Aldon and Justin Smith got hurt against the Patriots? The Niners D was dismal after that game.
18 Jun 13
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Originally posted by dryhumpBurning the clock reduces scoring opportunities for BOTH teams. Regardless of how much time you burn on the clock, each team still gets a 1 for 1 chance to score. Which team scores the most points per possession wins the game.
I would argue that game managing would be even more important in that situation. Short passes and a strong running game to control the clock and keep a high scoring opposing offense off the field. Of course, I could just be dangerously old fashioned. It should be said that I don't have a problem with CK starting, I just didn't like the way Harbaugh handled it.
In 2011 Alex Smith game managed the 49ers offense to an NFL record for field goals. And that's even with our elite defense consistently giving the offense turnovers and great field position.
BTW, how do you think Harbaugh should have handled it?
18 Jun 13
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper"The rationale is we have two quarterbacks that we feel great about as a starting quarterback," Harbaugh said. "Both have earned it, both deserve it -- Alex over a long period of time, Colin by virtue of the last three games. It tips the scales. Colin we believe has the hot hand. We'll go with Colin. And we'll go with Alex. They're both our guys."
Burning the clock reduces scoring opportunities for BOTH teams. Regardless of how much time you burn on the clock, each team still gets a 1 for 1 chance to score. Which team scores the most points per possession wins the game.
In 2011 Alex Smith game managed the 49ers offense to an NFL record for field goals. And that's even with our eli ...[text shortened]... e turnovers and great field position.
BTW, how do you think Harbaugh should have handled it?
Clearly they weren't "both his guys". That's fine. I don't have a problem with a coach deciding to play someone, that's his job. Don't ride the fence like this though, that's just annoying.
What was the 49ers record in 2011? As I remember it wasn't anything to cry about. Did they score more than their opponents that year? I don't really want to give you a bunch of crap about AS vs CK, I would rather discuss whether ball control offenses are still viable in today's NFL.
18 Jun 13
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Originally posted by ZambonerOf the ten teams that ran the ball the most times in the NFL, 7 made the playoffs. By contrast, only 1 of the 15 teams that ran the ball the least did.http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingAttempts
Used to be there was nothing wrong with it. Today's pass-heavy NFL is a different kind of animal though.
EDIt: The three teams that passed the most didn't make the playoffs. The three teams that passed the least did.http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing/sort/passingAttempts
18 Jun 13
Originally posted by dryhumpIt's reasonable to assume Harbaugh (at that point) was undecided and chose to let them compete for the starting spot; however, an interview (I think with GM Baake) confirmed he had made up his mind. So, I have to agree with you on that point.
"The rationale is we have two quarterbacks that we feel great about as a starting quarterback," Harbaugh said. "Both have earned it, both deserve it -- Alex over a long period of time, Colin by virtue of the last three games. It tips the scales. Colin we believe has the hot hand. We'll go with Colin. And we'll go with Alex. They're both our guys."
Clearly ...[text shortened]... rather discuss whether ball control offenses are still viable in today's NFL.
The 49ers were carried by the Defense and running game in 2011, although Smith did have his shining moments.
To your question, yes of course ball control offenses are viable, even preferred IF you have a strong running game.
18 Jun 13
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperThe 49er running was pretty mediocre in 2011; it averaged only 4.1 (about league average) getting 2044 yards on 498 carries. It was much better in 2012; 2491 on 492 carries or 5.1 per. CK was partially responsible but both Gore and Hunter improved their yards per carry significantly (4.7 from 4.3 and 5.2 from 4.2 respectively).http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/sf
It's reasonable to assume Harbaugh (at that point) was undecided and chose to let them compete for the starting spot; however, an interview (I think with GM Baake) confirmed he had made up his mind. So, I have to agree with you on that point.
The 49ers were carried by the Defense and running game in 2011, although Smith did have his shining mom ...[text shortened]... s of course ball control offenses are viable, even preferred IF you have a strong running game.
18 Jun 13
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Originally posted by no1marauderI thought it would be more than that. What was the league average yards per carry? I couldn't find that stat, and I don't feel like looking up 32 teams to average them.
The 49er running was pretty mediocre in 2011; it averaged only 4.1 (about league average) getting 2044 yards on 498 carries. It was much better in 2012; 2491 on 492 carries or 5.1 per. CK was partially responsible but both Gore and Hunter improved their yards per carry significantly (4.7 from 4.3 and 5.2 from 4.2 respectively).http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/sf
Edit: Never mind, I found it.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/yardsPerRushAttempt/year/2011
It's probably because teams were stacking the box against us. Not to resurrect the "Captain check-down" debate.
19 Jun 13
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperIn 2012, in the 8 games AS started, Gore had 140 carries for 753 for 5.4. In the last 8 when CK started, he had 118 for 461 or 3.9.http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/8479/frank-gore
I thought it would be more than that. What was the league average yards per carry? I couldn't find that stat, and I don't feel like looking up 32 teams to average them.
Edit: Never mind, I found it.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/yardsPerRushAttempt/year/2011
It's probably because teams were stacking the box against us. Not to resurrect the "Captain check-down" debate.
19 Jun 13
Originally posted by no1marauderSo be it. On this one you made a solid case.
In 2012, in the 8 games AS started, Gore had 140 carries for 753 for 5.4. In the last 8 when CK started, he had 118 for 461 or 3.9.http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/8479/frank-gore
Just from anecdotes (from watching the games) it appeared the 49ers had a very strong running game. Hell, didn't Frank Gore make the 2012 pro bowl (that would be the 2011 season). I could be wrong on that but I thought he did.
Later on I'll try to look into why the numbers turned out that way. It really does seem that Gore pretty consistently picks up 4+ yards almost every time he touches the ball. In retrospect I do remember them stuffing the run more after Kaepernick took over.
