Originally posted by no1marauderIt's nice that a friend has to tell me that I am being publicly riduculed in a thread. I was under the impression that you could have a draw whenever you agreed on it. It's not like I tried to hide it. I could have messaged the guy and said let's play thirty moves and then agree to a draw. Why in the world should I try to juggle so many games and struggle against a higher rated player at the same time?
Those players should be ashamed of themselves. Such conduct is condemned in the USCF Code of Ethics at 5(c):
Deliberately failing to play at one's best in a game , in any manner inconsistent with the principles of good sportsmanship, honesty, or fair play.
IMO, these two players should be forfeited from the tourney. I suggest you send a "fair play" ticket.
To me it's good tournament strategy. If it's against the rules HERE, that's another matter.
How can it be unethical if I am playing to win the OVERALL TOURNAMENT, not the game? It seems as though the penalty of losing two points in each game (instead of 1/2 point) should be enough. Someone already mentioned the burden of not allowing anyone else to draw because he may pass me.
Before you point fingers and suggest fairplay tickets, perhaps you should think about IT ethically.
I'm playing my game, minding my own business, and you are suggesting that people write in to have me banned.
Thanks a lot, buddy
Thanks a lot
Originally posted by no1marauderI know not if article 5 (c) by USCF is a rule accepted here at RHP too, but even if it is accepted it seems to me that your thesis is false;
Those players should be ashamed of themselves. Such conduct is condemned in the USCF Code of Ethics at 5(c):
Deliberately failing to play at one's best in a game , in any manner inconsistent with the principles of good sportsmanship, honesty, or fair play.
IMO, these two players should be forfeited from the tourney. I suggest you send a "fair play" ticket.
For, both players failed not to play at “one’s best” in a game, because “best” is the maximum achievement which it favours most these players, always according with the rules. In a tournament the maximum achievement is to win the title, therefore the players are heading towards their aim with the minimum effort and with the maximum economy of their forces. On the other hand their draw causes no problem to the third stronger player of the group because they both lose the chance to gather the maximum points available. And surely it causes not problems to any other player of the group, as it does not cause problems to any other player of the tournament, for at the final stage the strongest players will be obliged to play solely for the win.
In addition, why one has to play against a strong opponent whilst he can legally avoid it, when he has such a gameload within a tournament with so many participants and his goal is strictly the title by using all the possible legal means?
Regarding the statement “...in any matter inconsistent with the principles of good sportmanship, honest, or fair play”:
A draw under these circumstances is just a means to postpone a fight, because this is just another favourable strategy for the top players; following a favourable strategy and at the same time not breaking the rules whilst not causing problems to the third stronger player of the group, and in addition whilst not causing problems to nobody else who is playing at that group, it cannot be inconsistent with the principles of good sportmanship.
Regarding the fair play ticket:
I would have join hands with you if the two players had agree to win and lose on each one -then yes, this would be unethical because both of them they would get more points and they would also gain a better standing at the tournament. But this is not the case over here, so a fair play ticket it is out of order.
But anyway if you estimate that your opinion is accurate, it is proper to send yourself a fair play ticket regarding this matter once you are sure that those players deserve it.
In my opinion, the sole drawback arising from this agreement for a draw is that the two players offered not to us people a sharp and spectacular game; well, me in person I can live allright with this😵
Originally posted by ItsYouThatIAdoreI would not be so 100% sure about group 88 - JanCar also could be real competitor. His rating is low only because he has finished only 10 games.....
Here is a quick run through of some of the more exciting groups and names to watch out for in the 2009 Championship!
Group 2
Siskin, Procyk, Clandarkfire
All rated 1800 ish and up
Group 4
Quirine, Sami Vuori, Blanca
Quirine is former Champ against two strong players, Blanca's rating is low, but he has been known to play at over 2000 rat ...[text shortened]... ome fun games...
Regardless of rating most groupings will be fun to watch, good luck to all!
Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromficsTry the same "strategy" in a USCF OTB tournament and see what happens.
It's nice that a friend has to tell me that I am being publicly riduculed in a thread. I was under the impression that you could have a draw whenever you agreed on it. It's not like I tried to hide it. I could have messaged the guy and said let's play thirty moves and then agree to a draw. Why in the world should I try to juggle so many games ...[text shortened]... me it's good tournament strategy. If it's against the rules HERE, that's another matter.
USCF Rule 20L Manipulating Results. Collusion to fix or throw games, whether before or during a game in order to manipulate prize money, title norms, ratings, or for any other purpose is illegal and may result in severe sanctions, including revocation of USCF membership.
Originally posted by no1marauderIs this the USCF ?
Try the same "strategy" in a USCF OTB tournament and see what happens.
USCF Rule 20L Manipulating Results. Collusion to fix or throw games, [b] whether before or during a game in order to manipulate prize money, title norms, ratings, or for any other purpose is illegal and may result in severe sanctions, including revocation of USCF membership.[/b]
In your opinion, every player that plays for a draw should be ashamed of himself. Where do you get off?
Try PLAYING CHESS instead of being critical.
I understand the original poster that started all this.
He had sour grapes over not being offered a draw.
I don't understand where any of what I and another player agree to is any of your business.
You are basically saying anyone that tries to draw a higher rated player in any tournament should be ashamed.
That's not how it works buddy.
Sometimes draws are a good result.
Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromficsWhat part of this didn't you understand:
Also we didn't fix the games. A draw offer never even came up until after the game had started.
I love how non-subscribers with no games in progress form the strongest, most critical opinions.
whether before or during a game
Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromficsThe games were fixed as you well know. A draw offer after 6 moves is absurd. You admit you were doing it to manipulate the results of the tournament. Case closed.
Is this the USCF ?
In your opinion, every player that plays for a draw should be ashamed of himself. Where do you get off?
Try PLAYING CHESS instead of being critical.
I understand the original poster that started all this.
He had sour grapes over not being offered a draw.
I don't understand where any of what I and another player ag ...[text shortened]... rnament should be ashamed.
That's not how it works buddy.
Sometimes draws are a good result.
It's a public game on this site so I'll comment on your poor sportsmanship if I feel like it.
Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromficsIf you did so in a USCF OTB tournament for the reasons you gave here, you'd face severe sanctions. It's up to the Site Admins whether you should be punished here for your ethical misconduct and poor sportsmanship.
So I'm not allowed to offer a draw on move 6 ?
That is not within the rules ?
Yes Or No ???
3 edits
Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
In your opinion, every player that plays for a draw should be ashamed of himself. Where do you get off?
Playing for a draw is one thing, but I don't think 6 moves is very much playing.
You are basically saying anyone that tries to draw a higher rated player in any tournament should be ashamed.
Again, trying to draw someone is one thing, but 6 moves is not really trying, is it?
Originally posted by dweezilI don't see any difference from agreeing to a draw after 6 book moves or agreeing to a draw after White's first move.
[b]Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
In your opinion, every player that plays for a draw should be ashamed of himself. Where do you get off?
Playing for a draw is one thing, but I don't think 6 moves is very much playing.
You are basically saying anyone that tries to draw a higher rated player in any tournament should be ashamed.
Again, trying to draw someone is one thing, but 6 moves is not really trying, is it?[/b]
Originally posted by no1marauderExplain to me why there is an option to offer a draw on move 6 if it is unethical and unsportsmanlike. Why do I even have the option to offer a draw? By your criteria, draws should not be allowed in tournaments.
If you did so in a USCF OTB tournament for the reasons you gave here, you'd face severe sanctions. It's up to the Site Admins whether you should be punished here for your ethical misconduct and poor sportsmanship.
Here's the bottom line. I played in a tournament. I offered two draws, and they were accepted.
YOU publicly ridiculed me, questioned my ethics and sportsmanship, and suggested players create a fairplay ticket against me.
You are doing all of the attacking for something that I don't see that is wrong. As I said, friends are messaging me telling me that my character is being attacked. Over What ??? Two Draws
Come on man. Give me a break. You haven't ONCE published a rule here that I have broken. You just keep quoting another organisation.
If anything, your attacks on ME are immoral and unethical.
How can this sort of attitude not cost the site business. I know that I for one am now considering not resubscribing. I shouldn't be publicly riduculed for playing the game the way I want to. I shouldn't be "ashamed" for taking an early draw any more than I should for making any LEGAL move. Find someone else to publicly ridicule next.
I'm here to PLAY CHESS.