@suzianne said
Whether he knew Greek during his human lifetime, I have no idea, and I barely even care.

If that's how you feel, then shake hands with your online stalker, as he cares even less than barely.

What you and this person have in common on this thread is the ignorance that impedes your caring. Although you both might not realize it, it's crucial to determine whether Jesus, the man, was Hellenized or not.

Although I'm fishing here, specifically, it's important to consider if he was a philosopher worthy of filling the position of ruler, as the "Philosopher King", in Socrates' ideal city-state, God's Kingdom. If we can trust the pertinent scriptures, Jesus certainly claimed to be a King, in addition to being the Son of God, the "King of kings", as John labeled him in Revelation.

@suzianne said
This is all bollocks.

All of it.

I can understand it. Obviously it's all something you don't get, from what I'm hearing.

I did not twist your arm for your comments. Something else, perhaps?

@divegeester said
You’re calling me Satan

Hardly! Again, you are too dumb to be like Satan. If anything, to me, personally, you are more harmless than a garter snake. I have tough skin, and I don't feel any of your harmless bites, although some here may. To those who do, you are to them a poisonous rattle snake. I only feel sorry for you, and anyone else who takes you seriously. And seriously, only rodents need fear you.

And keep in mind that I'm only being kind to you, whenever I reply to your childish remarks.

@divegeester said
Ok well you don’t know him, you didn’t know about his bereavement and you have no opinion on the OP.

Thanks for posting anyway.

Why must you always be rude?

He may not have an opinion, but I do, since I know that FMF switched religions. From what he posted, I understood that he went from being a Christian to being an atheist, if my recollection serves me right.

The point for this opinion on FMF is in reference to his bereavement. I would imagine that he would have taken the loss of his wife differently and with less intensity, had he kept his Christian faith.

For an atheist, who religiously believes there is no God, death is the end. Whereas, a Christian believes there is something still, after death. Something of a possibility of being reunited with lost loved ones. Hope is last to die, as poets tell us. The hope that there may truly be an afterlife.

Whether it's true or not, it matters not when it comes to hope, which can lighten the heavy load of grieving. Who knows, perhaps FMF will comeback here, and tell us how and why he became a Christian once again. However, this is not a prediction, and only the hope that it will ease his pain.

If you do communicate with him privately, tell him that I wish for his heavy burden to be lightened. I would say that he did add life to this place.

@kellyjay said
You can know this that the scriptures teach Adam and Eve fell in paradise, Satan fell in heaven and there was war in heaven, and death entered the human race.

Satan broke truth and lied to Adam and Eve they wanted the lie to be true and acted on it.

When Satan speaks because there is no truth in him all that comes out are lies. Without the Spirit of God in us there ...[text shortened]... he truth we speak is ours not His. God is truth so to be contrary to Him is also contrary to truth.

You are all wet behind the ears! I'm throwing in the towel and a song, for friendship's sake.

YouTube

@suzianne said
With this kind of logic, you could prove that water is not wet.

Once you have a given (or a derived given) that is false, everything that follows after is false. This is the problem with believing that falsity is truth. Ego is the enemy of logic.

Ever hear the expression, cold as ice? That's what you are, a foreigner to the evident truth. BY the way, if water is cold enough, it's not wet. The term "wet" refers to a state of being damp or moist, which is characteristic of water in its liquid form. Ice, on the other hand, is a solid state of water and thus does not possess the moisture or dampness associated with the liquid state. This distinction is fundamental in understanding the properties and behaviors of water under different conditions.

It is also fundamental to understand how to determine, and then fish out the lies God has been telling the physical world ever since He created it, which is strictly for entertainment, if you can see the truth in the lies.

And talk about ego... Jesus was very egotistical. Anyone who claims that he alone can save the world has the biggest ego of all. Well, perhaps Trump would give Jesus a run for his money, when it comes to ego, and being the best at everything.

If you are a Christian, you would become a Trumper, because Trump is the one that will bring Jesus back down, and get the ball rolling on getting a new earth and new heaven. Like erecting a new and more attractive Casino in Las Vegas, as the old one has to be totally demolished to build the new one at the same location, if it's to be labeled as something new of the old one.

Is it logical to assign God the attributes of Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, and everything else Omni, and then believe God's lie that He really created an enemy for Himself? Seriously? The Devil is really God's right hand man, a son and partner in "crime", and in all the lies. And it's only for fun and games, does He make simpleminded people believe that lie of an enemy, because it's just part of the Big game of illusion.

Would I lie to you? Only for fun and games!

YouTube

@divegeester said
But there WAS a literal talking snake … right!?

You are a stereotype of one, the literal talking snake, although I never heard you say a word. A typing snake, you certainly are. I hear your keyboard rattle. Do you also have slanted eye pupils by any chance?

"Why are you wanting to restrict God's recreational power? Do you think that it's not possible for God to create a talking snake for his amusement, and ours too? You do talk, don't you? And I say, that's all you do.... talk, talk, talk. Or rather all you do is hiss, hiss, and more hissing, besides rattling.

You are too dumb to comprehend the meaning of Omnipotent.

@suzianne said
The Father of us all is God. This includes the angels, many of whom rebelled and departed with Satan. Speculating on the reasons why is foolhardy.

I have no "need to know."





As they say, it is what it is.

Therefore you disagree with Mr. Maxwell, as I do. The Devil does have a Father, and perhaps the correct interpretation of the Greek for John 8:44 is indeed that the Father is also a liar. But since Jesus also said that God is Good, He's a Good liar. And a good liar is one who makes others believe the lies, otherwise he would not be a good liar.

Could be that a few Jews got wise to Jesus, when, as stated in Matthew 12:24, the Pharisees said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons. To which Jesus' sophistic reply was, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand."

Obviously, Jesus was telling, and not telling, the truth. The truth that every Kingdom divided against itself will not stand. And is not the house of Christendom divided against itself? And Jesus was telling a fib on whose authority he performs it, since we have Isaiah 45:7, which states, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

We all have a need to know. To know good and evil; to know the truth about them, which will set you free.

One of those disguised "gospel" songs, Pink Floyd - Coming Back To Life

YouTube

@divegeester said
… FMF

It seems pretty clear to me that FMF is gone for good since his bereavement. And whether you loved him or loathed him it is also now clear that he was without doubt one of, if not THE best poster in the two forums he frequented; General and Spirituality.

Thoughts?

Why are there only two choices of extremes? I did not love him, nor did I loathe him; I maintain a neutral position. It's really a terrible thing to lose a family member prematurely. It would seem to be the most likely reason for his absence from this place, which he haunted for so long. But I would not say that he's gone for good, because no one mourns for good. And I would not be surprised if one day he'll come around.

You certainly have been at a loss ever since FMF stopped posting. And anticipating your signature reply of, "Why is that so?", I say that you're only 1/10 the man FMF is. Being his tiny twin, he made you look a lot bigger than you really are. Had you been the one to have left, this place would be 10 times better.

It's said that only the good die young.

@suzianne said
No, I am not contributing to this.

It is all specious speculation.

Do you know what they say? "You are hanging yourself on someone else's words, dying to believe what in what you have heard."

Someone else also said:
"Further, looked at from a historical point of view, there have been so many different Greek translations with different dialects and accents, some of them gaining more authority than others over time, that it becomes nearly impossible to critically assess them. One Greek translation becomes the basis for another Greek translation becomes the basis for yet another one such that, inevitably, what we are dealing with is assessing copies of copies of copies, not original manuscript text."

When it comes to the Word of God, there is so much room for speculation that it leaves a Grand Canyon-sized gap between hearsay and truth. The Word needs to come back to life, and speak for itself.

I can understand why you would shy away from this. I would not be the one here to twist your arm to force you to voice your opinion on whether or not the Devil has a father, and who would be the one to serve with the paternity suit.

The Bible, in the Book of Job, describes Satan as one of the "sons of God" who came to present themselves before the Lord, indicating that he is considered part of the divine hierarchy in the heavenly court.

Truly truly I say: Like father, like son. And we all have a father, whether we know him or not.

Just look at it this other way, as I'm using someone on whom you have a speculative, specious opinion.

Mary Trump, Donald Trump's niece, describes Fred Trump as a cold and forbidding patriarch who drove his eldest son, Fred Jr., to alcoholism and an early death. She also blames Fred Trump Sr. for giving Donald his bad habits, including lying and self-deception.

The nuances of translating the Greek New Testament.

The following is from this source https://concordiatheology.org/2021/11/five-things-new-testament-translations-dont-want-you-to-know/

1. The Devil Has a Father? (Jn 8:44)

In John 8:44, Jesus says of the devil, ὅταν λαλῇ τὸ ψεῦδος, ἐκ τῶν ἰδίων λαλεῖ, ὅτι ψεύστης ἐστὶν καὶ ὁπατὴρ αὐτοῦ. The ESV renders this, “When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” This translation assumes that αὐτοῦ is neuter and its antecedent is τὸ ψεῦδος earlier in the verse: “he is a liar and the father of it (i.e., the lie).” But αὐτοῦ could also be masculine, in which case its antecedent would be the subject of the sentence, the devil: “he is a liar and so is his father.” In fact, I would argue that if you didn’t already know that the devil doesn’t have a father, this would be the most natural way to construe the verse.

But wait, that doesn’t make any sense. We do know that the devil doesn’t have a father. So surely the English translations are right, and we really don’t need to consider this absurd possibility. No one would seriously take the verse this way.
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Personally, I would differ with the author, David Maxwell, and I would seriously consider the verse that indeed states the Devil is a liar, and so is his father. The Devil has a Father. After all, God, the Father, did create the Serpent of Old. And we are also told that God, the Father, sends out strong delusions so that we will believe the lie.

Does the Devil have a Father? Do we have any Greek language/ Biblical scholars here who can shed some light on Lucifer's Daddy?

This thread is indirectly related to the thread questioning Jesus' ability to speak Greek. The NT was originally written in Greek.

How was the Greek translation obtained? Was John 8:44 a literal translation of Jesus' direct words? These words spoken by Jesus on the Devil were in Greek? Were they in Aramaic? Were they in Hebrew? Adding another twist to the words, regardless of which language, is that all three also have various dialects.

Which language and which dialect was spoken by Jesus, regarding John 8:44? It does make a hell of a difference, when it comes to the Devil, and his father.

@moonbus said
The Catholics overthink everything. It’s a habit they picked up after Origen read Plato, and they can’t walk it back it now after so many centuries of torturing logic to make the incredible credible.

Protestants put less emphasis on the doctrines (the Trinity and all that) and more on the personal conviction aspect.

"Christianity is Platonism for the masses." -- Nietzsche

@mlb62 said
yes I have. So explain to me why the Pope has already admitted that ETs do exist and that God made them, but put them on a different planet. The the pope ( at that time) removed the Book of Enoch from the Bible because it stated clearly he went on their space ship !! The Book of Enoch was too hot to handle !

You are in the realm of fringe conspiracy theories or misinterpretations of historical texts. It's crucial to approach such information with a critical eye, seeking out credible sources and relying on established historical and theological knowledge.

@mchill said
However, what you have pointed out from scripture hardly does any justice to the suggestion of Jesus having received a better education, and it was the reason for being able to speak Greek.

Please go back and read my little disclaimer. I said this does not directly answer your questions. In fact, I can find little data to suggest what linguistic skills Jesus had.

I don't mean to come across as haranguing to you, but we were actually addressing your initial reply and your follow-up. In quoting Luke 2:46-48, which is a single incident covering a period of three days, it could hardly serve as justification for higher education.

No doubt, if we can assert that it actually happened, it goes to show that the very young Jesus was well versed in Hebrew, the language of the Old Testament. At the temple courts, discussions were mostly of a religious nature. This would also indicate the young Jesus' knowledge of Judaism. The teachers there were very likely scribes and Pharisees, which Jesus would have questioned. It's reflective of the discussions he had with the same class of teachers of the law during the adult years of his three-year ministry. The number three is a recurring theme in the New Testament.

Anyway, I was not questioning the possibility you were proposing, as being an indirect reason for assuming Jesus' possible ability to speak Greek. Every bit contributes to the overall picture. And with enough possibilities, we may actually arrive at conclusions that are not only possible but probable.