- Joined
- 10 Jan 08
- Moves
- 22689
@moonbus saidDo you understand what the word seemingly means? I think it's dangerous to take a small portion of a quote and turn it into something it's not. I understand why they resign the games, why they might think they're meaningless, for me they're not. Just now I'm playing in two clan games that won't impact the result of the challenge, I don't care if they take 4 months, a year to finish, I'm going to finish the games and try to win. That's chess.
... it's annoying to have to wait for a seemingly meaningless game to end ...
That right there is the crux of the biscuit. Evidently you and some others here think some games are meaningless, and that's where the disrespect for the game and for one's opponent creeps in. If you treated every game and every opponent with the respect they deserve, you wouldn't ...[text shortened]... ach that the league championship had already been decided by Man.United ? They'd be villafied [sic].
But in football it happens all the time, the year Man City came from behind to beat QPR and win the league with two goals inside a few minutes only happened because QPR knew they were safe from relegation and stopped playing. They didn't leave they pitch but they might as well have, there was no reason to try and they didn't. It happens all the time and is the reason why the last two group games of the world cup start at the same time. In theory why the last round of the PL season starts at the same time but it doesn't always work out.
@moonbus saidmoonbus,
... it's annoying to have to wait for a seemingly meaningless game to end ...
That right there is the crux of the biscuit. Evidently you and some others here think some games are meaningless, and that's where the disrespect for the game and for one's opponent creeps in. If you treated every game and every opponent with the respect they deserve, you wouldn't ...[text shortened]... ach that the league championship had already been decided by Man.United ? They'd be villafied [sic].
Let's talk about disrespectful for a moment. It is Extremely disrespectful to hold up a game for 4-6 months when you have already lost a challenge, I don't mean you personally of course. On the other hand you might be one of those players who would play out a game even though the Clan Challenge you were in was lost, just to stop the other clan from starting a New Challenge. You know 1 clan can only play the other 3 Challenges at a time.
That my friend I consider Very Disrespectful. You are talking about an individual game, what we are talking about is a Clan/Team where you are a small part of the larger picture. How is it Respectful to play out a game in a challenge you have lost for your own personal gain???? I leave you with that to Ponder.
-VR
@A-Unique-Nickname saidTrevor,
Do you understand what the word seemingly means? I think it's dangerous to take a small portion of a quote and turn it into something it's not. I understand why they resign the games, why they might think they're meaningless, for me they're not. Just now I'm playing in two clan games that won't impact the result of the challenge, I don't care if they take 4 months, ...[text shortened]... n theory why the last round of the PL season starts at the same time but it doesn't always work out.
I really don't know if you'll ever get the Clan/Team concept, or fully understand it to be quite frank and honest with you old friend.
-VR
- Joined
- 10 Jan 08
- Moves
- 22689
@Very-Rusty saidI understand what it takes to win the clan championship, understanding doesn't mean that's the approach you want to take. I prefer my way, you prefer yours. It's ok to be different.
Trevor,
I really don't know if you'll ever get the Clan/Team concept, or fully understand it to be quite frank and honest with you old friend.
-VR
@A-Unique-Nickname saidTrevor,
I understand what it takes to win the clan championship, understanding doesn't mean that's the approach you want to take. I prefer my way, you prefer yours. It's ok to be different.
I believe after 1rst place Clan Championships up in the double digits and playing in clans for 16 plus of my 18 going on 19 years on the site. I do have a good idea on how Clan Challenges need to be played providing you want to finish in the top spots. What you are talking about is individual efforts not a Clan/Team game, my old friend.
What your are talking about is chess between two people, and I agree with you, but you can't look at it the same as playing in a Clan/Team setting as it is just not going to work. In private games you can have a game last a year or more if you wish. You just can't do that in Clan Challenges, if you want to be a Top Clan Challenge contender. 4month to a year is too long for a Clan Challenge to go, trust me on this. I do know what I am talking about.
-VR
- Joined
- 10 Jan 08
- Moves
- 22689
@Very-Rusty saidI disagree, Fred put it perfectly for you to understand, yes I want to create fair challenges for my clanmates and yes I want to win the matchups but I don't care about winning the 'clan championship'. When it becomes quality over quantity maybe I'll change my mind but the way the system is set up now is not a system I care about winning overall.
Trevor,
I believe after 1rst place Clan Championships up in the double digits and playing in clans for 16 plus of my 18 going on 19 years on the site. I do have a good idea on how Clan Challenges need to be played providing you want to finish in the top spots. What you are talking about is individual efforts not a Clan/Team game, my old friend.
-VR
My team can take their time and enjoy the games, play them out regardless of the situation of the clan challenge. Win together and lose together 😉
@A-Unique-Nickname
I have all the respect in the World for Fred and he was my clan leader for 13 years! We don't always agree on everything but we agree on some things and we both know how Clan Challenges are won. I still consider him a "Friend"!
You are more than welcome to play them the way you want to, just make sure you have like minded people playing in the clan with you and you can all have fun. So long as everyone is on the same page then, it will not be a problem for you. Just know you aren't playing a Clan/Team concept playing the way you are talking about, but indeed you will have lots of fun.
-VR
@Very-Rusty saidThe one part of the issue I do not understand is the repeated refrain
Trevor,
I really don't know if you'll ever get the Clan/Team concept, or fully understand it to be quite frank and honest with you old friend.
-VR
"just to stop the other clan from starting a New Challenge. "
I do understand that this is the result of playing out games - and that a clan can only play 3 challenges etc.
But as I see it there are two kinds of players in the discussion
1. Its over - let get on with the next challenge
2. Hey we are playing a game here - move
Who are these third strawmen?
How many people do we think join a clan and then purposely prevent more games from being played? Prevent more games for their own clan members?
Not moving does not prevent the opposing clans from starting games with other clans.
Why? What would their motivation be to not allow chess to be played on a chess site? What could they possibly gain and what difference could it make in a year of 500+ challenges for the winning clan?
I know people don't move - I am playing a clan game where I have had a forced win for months. My opponent moves every week - just before the clock. I assume they think I might time-out if they wait me out? Not sure. But I don't assume its so their clan leader can't create a new challenge. The clan leader can do that on their own. Don't accept a new challenge with our clan.
It's not rhetorical - its a real question - how many players do we think are on this site and have joined a clan and intentionally (that is what I am hearing here "just to stop the other clan from starting a New Challenge." ) stop more chess from being played. 5? 25? 55?
And does it work - does chess prevention effect the end-of-year table?
@A-Unique-Nickname saidWell then we agree. It's okay to be different. So since you had also said you did not care and that you will do things your way, don't you think it might be time to drop it? The leader of Metallica and Very Rusty have explained more times than I can count, and they did it with facts. You may not like it, but it's legal, within the rules, and it stops games from going on forever and allows leaders to start new matches.
I understand what it takes to win the clan championship, understanding doesn't mean that's the approach you want to take. I prefer my way, you prefer yours. It's ok to be different.
If the match is won, then the games are MEANINGLESS. Time to end them and move on. It's just that simple. Many clans do it for a reason.
How about we change the topic that means something?????
- Joined
- 10 Jan 08
- Moves
- 22689
@Michael-Martin saidWhy are you being aggressive?
Well then we agree. It's okay to be different. So since you had also said you did not care and that you will do things your way, don't you think it might be time to drop it? The leader of Metallica and Very Rusty have explained more times than I can count, and they did it with facts. You may not like it, but it's legal, within the rules, and it stops games from goi ...[text shortened]... t simple. Many clans do it for a reason.
How about we change the topic that means something?????
@A-Unique-Nickname saidHow do you see what was said aggressive, because it isn't what you Think?
Why are you being aggressive?
-VR
@A-Unique-Nickname saidIs that a joke? Have you read your posts???? I simply said Fred and Rusty said it perfectly, you said you were going to do things your way, so it seemed to be a good time to drop the subject.
Why are you being aggressive?
How many times should Rusty and Fred repeat the same things? They won't go back and forth for long.
I was simply stating facts. There is no reason for anyone to be aggressive. Nobody.
@Bish saidThey drag the games as long as they can. Because they don't like the leader, they want another leader to win. This has happened twice in the last three or four years? Both players are gone. One left on his own. The other got booted. And there are more.
The one part of the issue I do not understand is the repeated refrain
"just to stop the other clan from starting a New Challenge. "
I do understand that this is the result of playing out games - and that a clan can only play 3 challenges etc.
But as I see it there are two kinds of players in the discussion
1. Its over - let get on with the next challenge
2. Hey we ...[text shortened]... being played. 5? 25? 55?
And does it work - does chess prevention effect the end-of-year table?
It becomes a who likes who more. That is what drives them to drag challenges out or to give a challenge that is only two players instead of five on five.
They play favorites. The list goes on and on.
I have had challenges go over a year, many of them, and some over two years.
They will say they don't do it, and you don't have to believe it.
As long as what we do is within the rules, that is all that matters.
As Fred said, if they change the rules at the end of the year, for everyone, we will still find a way to win. Within the rules.
All my best,
Michael