@Ghost-of-a-Duke said@Ghost,
So, to clarify, Rusty is wrong in your opinion when he stated this about ratings:
"I would like to point out it all evens itself out in the end, the player always gets back to his/her playing strength."
After being here for 18 years and playing most people on the site, I have a very good idea of their True Ratings. I am of the opinion people as a rule will get back to their original Playing Strength. As has been pointed out the Ratings showing have been off for many years.
I know the True Strengths of many of the players on this Site, you can be assured of that, and I make it a point to learn the true strength's of the New Players that come on to the site, who are sometimes old players with new names.
I am one of the people who am of the opinion that the Clan Rating should be separate like the club ratings are, if that can be done I see no reason that the Clan Rating couldn't be separate from other ratings. As The leader of Metallica said then the leaders couldn't get players to play in tournaments to lower their ratings, the problem would solved or far less chances of happening. Some will always figure out a way to beat the system. That you can take to the bank.
-VR
- Joined
- 10 Jan 08
- Moves
- 22687
@shortcircuit saidHi mate, I'll reply to your long message when I'm on the laptop. Good to see you posting again, best clan will forever be the jalapeño donkeys 😉
I can speak to you only of my opinion and the facts. My opinion on the ratings system is this:
1. it is severely flawed and has been for years.
2. It is not accurate. Through the years I have developed a template of the various players that I have knowledge of and assessed their capability (their true rating if you will).
3. I do not allow the RHP rating to be any ...[text shortened]... Those I don't know, I have to learn, and I proceed cautiously until I do know them.
Fair enough?
Regarding the ratings, I see your points. It wouldn't be flawed if people played every game to win and with the same focus, unfortunately that doesn't happen for various reasons. Some natural and others like you say not so much. It's human nature to want to beat the system, get an edge on your opponents, in chess, life, everything.
I think that's where a clan rating is important to bring credibility to the clan system. I don't have the time or desire to look at a bunch of games to establish the true rating of someone. Have been going by a mixture of average rating and highest rating to determine matchups. People have good and bad days/games though, that's the beauty of chess, I can look like a 1800 player in one game and then a 1300 in another.
One of my best recent games was against your clan, went all out attacking, had a winning position then blundered my rook and lost the game not paying attention playing on a phone. Such is chess.
- Joined
- 10 Jan 08
- Moves
- 22687
@Very-Rusty saidIs your true rating 1238? As it is now.
@Ghost,
After being here for 18 years and playing most people on the site, I have a very good idea of their True Ratings. I am of the opinion people as a rule will get back to their original Playing Strength. As has been pointed out the Ratings showing have been off for many years.
I know the True Strengths of many of the players on this Site, you can be ...[text shortened]... ppening. Some will always figure out a way to beat the system. That you can take to the bank.
-VR
@shortcircuit saidSpeaking of sportsmanship: four marathon runners were disqualified and divested of their medals and prize money after it was determined that, when leading the race, they had deliberately slowed down to let let slower runner win.
@moonbus
IF the ratings meant something, sure they would. These ratings are so far off kelter it is ridiculous. I see 2000 level players at 1650 I see 1500 players at 1200. I know what the capabilities are, these ratings are rubbish and have been for many years. Time outs are indicative of players whose ratings should not be trusted.
Secondarily, regarding your comme ...[text shortened]... ade. But as the rules are now, you are attempting to impose your will where the rules do not. Sorry.
https://www.espn.com/olympics/trackandfield/story/_/id/39973781/beijing-runner-disqualified-others-slowed-let-win
Throwing a playable chess game is the same as slowing down to let a slower runner pass you by. It's disrespectful of the game.
@shortcircuit saidI agree that clan matches are not like team tournaments. The structure of the scoring is weighted to quantity, not quality; in theory, the clan with the most loses could with the clan championship, provided it also had the most wins. This is one of the reasons I left the clan feature here and have declined more than one invitation to return.
I will take exception to this as I played in many FIDE rated tournaments in high school. When they played team events, where you played 4 vs 4 in a round robin format, we frequently resigned games that were unnecessary once 2.5 points had been secured. No one was banned, no one was punished, and it was done by many.
I agree with you in a singles tournament. Now to be fair, clan chess is like team chess NOT like singles chess, wouldn't you agree?
@shortcircuit saidNot really.
I can speak to you only of my opinion and the facts. My opinion on the ratings system is this:
1. it is severely flawed and has been for years.
2. It is not accurate. Through the years I have developed a template of the various players that I have knowledge of and assessed their capability (their true rating if you will).
3. I do not allow the RHP rating to be any ...[text shortened]... Those I don't know, I have to learn, and I proceed cautiously until I do know them.
Fair enough?
Firstly, if you are concerned about the integrity of the rating system on this site, don't you think you are compounding the problem by having clan members resign games that aren't lost? - I take your point that rating fluctuations won't be dramatic between players of similar ratings, but due to the high quantity of games involved it will still have an affect. It's like complaining about all the litter on the street while simultaneously dropping litter of your own.
Secondly, if the two of us were paired in a clan challenge, it appears we would be approaching the game in entirely different ways. Now, I of course want to win the game for the clan, but more than that I want to have an enjoyable game, hopefully one where i will learn something new. (This often comes by way of a defeat). I move pretty quickly, but when the position becomes more complex I might slow down here and there to really consider the position, find the best move. - If you then resigned this game, in an equal position, just as it was getting interesting, simply because the challenge had already been theoretically won or lost, I would certainly view that as disrespectful, bearing in mind the time I had invested in the game. - As a chess player, why wouldn't you want every game you are involved in to be played to its natural conclusion? Why has the pursuit of quantity been allowed to trump the joy of chess?
Sure, once a year you get to pat yourselves on the back for being champions and I'm sure that feels great (and certainly involves a lot of work which I commend you for) but what about all those abandoned games and the enjoyment of chess forfeited in the pursuit of that goal?
@shortcircuit saidIf you agree to a match with 7- or 14-day time bank, you stick to it. The player is entitled to use it all up; after all, he may yet might find a saving move or tactic or trap. Only duffers hope for stalemate. Good players work for it.
@moonbus
IF the ratings meant something, sure they would. These ratings are so far off kelter it is ridiculous. I see 2000 level players at 1650 I see 1500 players at 1200. I know what the capabilities are, these ratings are rubbish and have been for many years. Time outs are indicative of players whose ratings should not be trusted.
Secondarily, regarding your comme ...[text shortened]... ade. But as the rules are now, you are attempting to impose your will where the rules do not. Sorry.
Below, Marshall - Lasker, New York 1924. Lasker gets himself into a queen and minor piece endgame two pawns down, but he plays on, not out of hope.
"The hardest thing in the world is to win a won game."
Lasker did not just blunder into this astonishing finale--he set it up.
@moonbus
It's a shame that Fred took all that time and nobody gets it. Or more simple reason. You don't like the rule that has been fair since day one. It's not going to change, It's perfectly fair for a reason, so it will be used when needed.
A few player don't like it and the rest of the players, majority are perfectly okay with it and understand it.
Time to move on.
Fred put it perfectly.
All my best,
Michael
@Michael-Martin saidI understand the tactic of throwing playable games, and I'm not accusing anyone of violating any rules here; that's just the way the scoring system is set up. What you and Fred advocate has nothing to do with chess as such; it might as well be backgammon clans or skat clans or bridge clans. What it comes down to is not chess, but gaming the scoring system. Not my cup of tea, but thank you for responding.
@moonbus
It's a shame that Fred took all that time and nobody gets it. Or more simple reason. You don't like the rule that has been fair since day one. It's not going to change, It's perfectly fair for a reason, so it will be used when needed.
A few player don't like it and the rest of the players, majority are perfectly okay with it and understand it.
Time to move on.
Fred put it perfectly.
All my best,
Michael
I can well understand why Ghost denigrates the 'champignons' of such a league. Any soccer team which threw playable games would be booed off the pitch and relegated.
@A-Unique-Nickname saidTrevor,
Is your true rating 1238? As it is now.
I could wait until yours drops and ask you the same question. My low rating is from gameload on this site, plus playing on two other sites. It will not be where it is for long you count on that. I also apologize for my rating to those I am playing when I win against them. It is not there intentionally I got beaten fair in square to best of my knowledge. It had nothing to do with the few games I resigned to close challenges people were dragging out as the challenge was already won by us. The only reason this was done was so we couldn't start another one. That Sir, I will not condone no matter who is doing it. It is called poor Sportsmanship when a player does that just so another clan can't start a new challenge. After 16 plus years of Clan play I have seen it all and many Rules change to try and stop Metallica, The Clan leader would just adjust to the new rules and would just keep on winning. No Site Rules were broken.
-VR
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 123410
@Very-Rusty saidCongratulations to you and the rest of the Breaking Bad clan on your 2024 league victory.
It appears 2024 has been completed.
We are now working on 2025, Good luck to all!
-VR
-Removed-Thank You diver,
It is much appreciated for your acknowledgement of our successful year. Wishing you and Metallica all the best in 2025. I believe there will be some clans gunning for us in 2025 as is the way of the Clan Challenges for many years now, and I hopeful many years to come, the more Competing for the championship the better for EVERYONE!
Kind Regards,
-VR
@Very-Rusty saidI think we all can agree on that.
I believe there will be some clans gunning for us in 2025 as is the way of the Clan Challenges for many years now, and I hopeful many years to come, the more fighting for the championship the better for EVERYONE!
Kind Regards,
-VR
@Ghost-of-a-Duke saidA thumbs up for that my old friend, FINALLY something we can agree on! 😉
I think we all can agree on that.
I replaced 'fighting' with 'competing' which sounds better. 🙂
-VR
@A-Unique-Nickname said@A-Unigue-Nickname,
Hi mate, I'll reply to your long message when I'm on the laptop. Good to see you posting again, best clan will forever be the jalapeño donkeys 😉
Really that is your opinion, the jalapeño donkeys??? How many 1rst Place Championships did they win compared to Metallica's reign in two decades? I believe sir you are being very bias and untruthful.
-VR