$2 Trillion Deficit

@AverageJoe1 said
Mars has been proven to exist. So have spacecraft. Where is a delusion? Oh yes, and so have been billionaires, with space crafts.

Classic deflection.

Oh, do keep going.

@Mott-The-Hoople said
everyone

And yet you defend tax cuts for the rich.

Hypocrisy much?

@Mott-The-Hoople said
His intent was to pass it, and you defended him 100%...your hypocrisy astounds.

Irony Man strikes again.

@Mott-The-Hoople said
income tax comes from income, who provides the ability to have an income?

Never heard of Natural Rights, have you?

@Mott-The-Hoople said
what do the progressives do when the wealthy leave?

Pay less in rent?

@wildgrass said
It's not an opinion it's a fact. Tax cuts for the wealthy do not trickle down to the middle/low income households. They just don't.

Plain english: Consider this:

Lower taxes on investment and biz owners encourage more investment and hiring,,,,,,and oh, that pesky risk-taking that I often mention.

Tax cuts increase economic activity overall. Talk about a 'ripple effect", and for the record, people are entitled to keep more of what they earn, regardless of their income level. You seem to proffer having rich give the govt more, while having the averaage earner not pay as much,,,,,,a meeting in the middle?? Smacks of socialism., OK, how bout have everone pay 14%,,,,but be careful what you wish for.

Ahhh, I love the smell of posting in the morning. Grey cells a'aworkin

And just for the recrod, Wgrass,

@no1marauder said
You are being, at best, "obtuse".

Loan forgiveness is what it is called regardless of what type of loan it is:

"Loan forgiveness eliminates all or part of a debt you owe, releasing you from the legal obligation to repay it." https://legalclarity.org/what-is-loan-forgiveness-and-how-does-it-work/[WORD TOO LONG].

You are exactlly right, that is what I said, slanthead.
I (the govt) loan the money, says , ohk, dont worry you don't have to pay it back. You and my uncle can call it forgiveness for some reason.....why call it forgiveness? Call it 'We will give you a gift, no payback!!!!"
Write till you are blue in the face, but trust me, we get it!! Dont pay back the money!
This leaves me with your having said for months that the 'forgiveness' does not cost our treasury. That is, you were saying that if we had $5 trillion and $675B in the treasury, and credited $675B to the loser borowers, that we would still have $5T and $675B in the treasury.

Ha!!! You think that AVJoe is being obtuse!!!!!!!!?????

@AverageJoe1 said
You are exactlly right, that is what I said, slanthead.
I (the govt) loan the money, says , ohk, dont worry you don't have to pay it back. You and my uncle can call it forgiveness for some reason.....why call it forgiveness? Call it 'We will give you a gift, no payback!!!!"
Write till you are blue in the face, but trust me, we get it!! Dont pay back the money!
T ...[text shortened]... have $5T and $675B in the treasury.

Ha!!! You think that AVJoe is being obtuse!!!!!!!!?????

No I never said that and you constantly lying and saying I did doesn't make it true.

@AverageJoe1 said
You are exactlly right, that is what I said, slanthead.
I (the govt) loan the money, says , ohk, dont worry you don't have to pay it back. You and my uncle can call it forgiveness for some reason.....why call it forgiveness? Call it 'We will give you a gift, no payback!!!!"
Write till you are blue in the face, but trust me, we get it!! Dont pay back the money!
T ...[text shortened]... have $5T and $675B in the treasury.

Ha!!! You think that AVJoe is being obtuse!!!!!!!!?????

Treating paper "investment" the same as economic investment in plant and equipment leads logically to money flowing to the easier to get paper investment which adds nothing to the economy. Trading one piece of paper for another is non-productive rent seeking in economic terms.

And taxing capital gains and dividends at lower rates than work discourages the latter.

Our tax system is messed up and every right wing tax cut has made it worse.

@no1marauder said
The wealthy don't work hard at all in a capitalist country; they get others to work hard or they make money by trading paper.

Every time there is a tax cut for the wealthy, others or their descendants have to "cover the lost revenue". For some reason, you never complain about that.

You are a broken record. The rich don't 'Work hard', lay bricks, but they take risk, iinvest their money and build things and run things (while wearing a coat and tie, yes) so that people who DO work hard ,,,,,,follow me....have a place to go work. To make money! To excel, to move up to the top, and when they learn the ropes, to quit that job and start their own business...........................and HIRE PEOPLE after they put on their coat and tie. Yu can spot these guys. Putin, Xi, coats and ties. Trump wears one,
Here is a tutorial for you. Google '250 years of capitalism and its tenets"

I did it, and got this,,,,your man Adam Smith at the Fore!!!!!

""Over 250 years, capitalism has evolved from 18th-century mercantile, industrial roots to a globalized digital economy, driven by the core tenets of private ownership, free markets, and profit-seeking. Championed by Adam Smith’s "The Wealth of Nations" in 1776, it spurred massive prosperity and innovation while facing criticism over inequality, exploitation, and its changing form.Core Tenets and Evolution (1776-2026)""

Coats and ties abounded, and so did the jobs....created by the coats and ties.
Oh my, even Smith was chided over inequality and exploitation.
Well , off to work to exploit my staff....and give them raises....so they won't leave and compete with me!!!!

@no1marauder said
Treating paper "investment" the same as economic investment in plant and equipment leads logically to money flowing to the easier to get paper investment which adds nothing to the economy. Trading one piece of paper for another is non-productive rent seeking in economic terms.

And taxing capital gains and dividends at lower rates than work discourages the latter.

Our tax system is messed up and every right wing tax cut has made it worse.

Hey, to those who do not understand Marauder (neither do I) he writes about 'paper' as if it has intrinsic value. So we are confused out of the gate, we csn hardly respond to a misnomer such as that.
Might he re-write his point?

@no1marauder said
No I never said that and you constantly lying and saying I did doesn't make it true.

Yes, you did.

@no1marauder said
The wealthy don't work hard at all in a capitalist country; they get others to work hard or they make money by trading paper.

Every time there is a tax cut for the wealthy, others or their descendants have to "cover the lost revenue". For some reason, you never complain about that.

This, too, is are misrepresentation of the facts.
His phrasing......" They (employers) get others to work hard...."

Please whistle that down to plain (and completed) english. I will hire a guy to build my house. I will go play golf. I am getting him to work hard. I will also get a waiter at lunch to bring me a sandwich, toasted on one side. I will never leave my chair.

You are really just throwing it all out there. Maybe you write in the evening, I write in the morning? That has to be it.

@no1marauder said
Talking to a stubborn moron like you is a waste of time but student loan forgiveness would help rectify the present unfairness of a system where the sons and daughters of the wealthy can go to college on mommy and daddy's dime while the sons and daughters of the working and middle class have to go deeply in debt to do the same. Then after graduation the latter's economic ...[text shortened]... ion. https://theeconosphere.com/the-role-of-education-as-a-public-good-with-positive-externalities/

I agree with everything you write here. No question. Life ain't fair. But opportunities to get past unfairness do exist here. Few obstacles, just go for it, don't you know?

With all due respect, you write all this which is fact, we all know this, your usual redundancy, and seemingly having only one answer....everyone pay for everyone else. My stock answer....some work harder than others.

But you say not one thing about the issue, that to 'forgive'. (whatever you think that means) means actually that YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY BACK THE $15,000 WE LOANED TO YOU!'
I argued what in the hell, months ago, and you responded, 'no worries, Joe, it is just a forgiveness (whatever that means), it does not have negative effect on our treasury."
You will not admit that you said that, ....no worries. Next subject please. And yes, you are correct with your post above. But alas, no answer except for the losing proposition of socialism. Fact: It don't work.

@AverageJoe1 said
When trickle down econ coincided with economic growth, it did not necessarily benefit all income groups. As a result, there were many opinions, so let us say you are half right and half wrong. Like Sonhouse!!!!

Tax cuts for the wealthy does not increase economic growth. It is not opinion. You say it's trickle down economics but none of the extra money that rich people get trickles down and you want to call that an opinion?

Other aspects of supply side economics do work, just not this. The myth only still exists because rich people pay for politicians and their propaganda.