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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    03 Aug '09 00:33
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090802/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_economy;_ylt=Ak0_dmoOCuMQRu.dFPqxysyMwfIE;_ylu=X3oDMTJkNGN0OGNnBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwODAyL3VzX2Vjb25vbXkEY3BvcwM3BHBvcwM3BHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDMm9iYW1hb2ZmaWNp

    WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama's treasury secretary said Sunday he cannot rule out higher taxes to help tame an exploding budget deficit, and his chief economic adviser would not dismiss raising them on middle-class Americans as part of a health care overhaul.

    Two things:

    1) It's nice to see they're finally deciding to level with us.

    2) I guess that no raising taxes on 95% of Americans didn't last very long. (Yes, I know some consumption taxes have gone up; but this, in its express backtracking on a previous promise, is still groundbreaking).

    I don't mind a moderate tax hike. I think it's probably necessary in the long run. But, I'd like a little more transparency.
  2. 03 Aug '09 02:30
    Originally posted by sh76
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090802/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_economy;_ylt=Ak0_dmoOCuMQRu.dFPqxysyMwfIE;_ylu=X3oDMTJkNGN0OGNnBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwODAyL3VzX2Vjb25vbXkEY3BvcwM3BHBvcwM3BHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDMm9iYW1hb2ZmaWNp

    [i]WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama's treasury secretary said Sunday he cannot rule out higher taxes to help tame an exploding budge ...[text shortened]... think it's probably necessary in the long run. But, I'd like a little more transparency.
    It does not bother you that Obama lied through his teeth to get elected?
    Also,I believe myself and others here predicted this was coming despite the nay sayers.
  3. 03 Aug '09 02:33
    Originally posted by sh76
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090802/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_economy;_ylt=Ak0_dmoOCuMQRu.dFPqxysyMwfIE;_ylu=X3oDMTJkNGN0OGNnBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwODAyL3VzX2Vjb25vbXkEY3BvcwM3BHBvcwM3BHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDMm9iYW1hb2ZmaWNp

    [i]WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama's treasury secretary said Sunday he cannot rule out higher taxes to help tame an exploding budge ...[text shortened]... think it's probably necessary in the long run. But, I'd like a little more transparency.
    I would like the courtesy of at least a reach around.
  4. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    03 Aug '09 02:48
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    It does not bother you that Obama lied through his teeth to get elected?
    Where did you hide the pod you hatched out of 8 months ago?
  5. 03 Aug '09 03:04
    Originally posted by FMF
    Where did you hide the pod you hatched out of 8 months ago?
    Its hidden next to the same vault that hides Obamas long form birth certificate.
  6. 03 Aug '09 03:05
    TNSTAFL

    There's no such thing as a free lunch
  7. 03 Aug '09 03:15
    Originally posted by badmoon
    TNSTAFL

    There's no such thing as a free lunch
    I recon ifn we gottta dance to this dang thang were gonna hafta pay the fiddler.
  8. 03 Aug '09 07:40 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    It does not bother you that Obama lied through his teeth to get elected?
    Also,I believe myself and others here predicted this was coming despite the nay sayers.
    They didn't implement a single tax hike, in fact, they just passed the largest middle class tax cuts in history. This just sounds like a statement that the option is a possibility for the future, and you don't even know the structure of a possible tax hike because it's still hypothetical.

    That being said, are you willing to say George H.W. Bush "lied through his teeth"? I'm just wondering whether or not you have a double standard.

    Edit: By "single tax hike" I'm referring to lower/middle income.
  9. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    03 Aug '09 08:00
    Being able to change your mind, to me, is a political virtue.

    Incorrect predictions come with the territory.

    If policy proposal X is the right and necessary thing to do, is it wrong to adopt policy X simply because of a prediction that policy X wasn't going to be necessary?

    Where does "lying through the teeth" even enter into it?

    What an odd and noxious mixture of political naivety and bottomless cynical seething from utherpendragon, as ever.
  10. 03 Aug '09 10:43
    Originally posted by badmoon
    TNSTAFL

    There's no such thing as a free lunch
    So it begs the question as to why the American public continues to elect people who push entitlements on them? Do they really believe their taxes will not go up? Are they stupid do you think?
  11. 03 Aug '09 10:45
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    It does not bother you that Obama lied through his teeth to get elected?
    Also,I believe myself and others here predicted this was coming despite the nay sayers.
    Read my lips, "Obama lies about everything!!"

    I just wonder if he will pay like Bush Sr. paid for lying to the American people about their taxes going up? Of course, people like sh76 may just shrug their shoulders and say, "Oh well, they just could not help themselves."
  12. 03 Aug '09 10:48 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    Being able to change your mind, to me, is a political virtue.

    Incorrect predictions come with the territory.

    If policy proposal X is the right and necessary thing to do, is it wrong to adopt policy X simply because of a prediction that policy X wasn't going to be necessary?

    Where does "lying through the teeth" even enter into it?

    What an odd and noxi ...[text shortened]... us mixture of political naivety and bottomless cynical seething from utherpendragon, as ever.
    So to say that you will not raise taxes on the middle class as a campaign promise and then do so is equivalent to a prediction gone awry?

    I think FMF has the word prediction and campaign promise mixed up a bit.

    You know, you could write speeches for this liar. Enjoy trying to defend him for the next election!! I really pity those who try to continue to defend this poor sap. It reminds me of those poor Republican saps that tried to defend Bush for his reelection. Pathetic!!
  13. 03 Aug '09 11:04
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    They didn't implement a single tax hike, in fact, they just passed the largest middle class tax cuts in history. This just sounds like a statement that the option is a possibility for the future, and you don't even know the structure of a possible tax hike because it's still hypothetical.

    That being said, are you willing to say George H.W. Bush ...[text shortened]... a double standard.

    Edit: By "single tax hike" I'm referring to lower/middle income.
    You must not smoke.
    That was the first tax hike on middle to low class america.
    Increase U.S. Federal Tax on a pack of cigarettes from $0.39 to $1.01 per pack
    Increase Federal tax on pipe tobacco from $1.0969 per pound to $2.83 per pound
    Increase Federal tax on RYO tobacco from $1.0969 per pound to $24.78 per pound
    Increase Federal tax on cigarette papers (50 or less) from $0.0122 to $0.0315
    Federal tax on cigarette tubes (50 or less) = $0.0244 - New rate is $0.0630
  14. 03 Aug '09 11:15
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    You must not smoke.
    That was the first tax hike on middle to low class america.
    Increase U.S. Federal Tax on a pack of cigarettes from $0.39 to $1.01 per pack
    Increase Federal tax on pipe tobacco from $1.0969 per pound to $2.83 per pound
    Increase Federal tax on RYO tobacco from $1.0969 per pound to $24.78 per pound
    Increase Federal tax on cigaret ...[text shortened]... $0.0122 to $0.0315
    Federal tax on cigarette tubes (50 or less) = $0.0244 - New rate is $0.0630
    1: He was referring to INCOME tax.

    2: The Making Work Pay tax ALONE is a $400 tax credit for individuals, which is WAY more than your claimed tax hike on cigarettes (which I haven't bothered to validate). Now factor in other tax credits and the reduction in a tax rate.

    3: You accidentally forgot to answer whether or not George H.W. Bush 'lied through his teeth' when he said, "read my lips, no new taxes"
  15. 03 Aug '09 11:20 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    So to say that you will not raise taxes on the middle class as a campaign promise and then do so is equivalent to a prediction gone awry?

    I think FMF has the word prediction and campaign promise mixed up a bit.

    You know, you could write speeches for this liar. Enjoy trying to defend him for the next election!! I really pity those who try to continu ...[text shortened]... minds me of those poor Republican saps that tried to defend Bush for his reelection. Pathetic!!
    OK, so let me get this straight.

    Obama is a liar because just after implementing the largest middle class tax cuts in history his administration says, "There is a lot that can happen over time. It is never a good idea to absolutely rule things out, no matter what."
    The tax increases in question haven't happened.

    On the other hand, George H.W. Bush said, "read my lips. no new taxes" and new taxes DID happen.

    Is George H.W. Bush a liar?