Originally posted by der schwarze RitterYou obviously missed my point. All I'm saying that a free society allows things that MAY, in the long run, produce undesirable effects (such as the crime increase you mention). Rhere are plenty of other examples besides abortion--we could spy on everyone and have unlimited search and seizures to try and stop terrorism. Maybe it would work, but I don't care for the tradeoffs. Personal freedom to congregate, speak against government, have an abortion, etc., I believe trumps any "gains" to be made by denying those freedoms.
Not allowing women to abort their children is a dictatorship? The Soviet Union was a dictatorship and they allowed and even encouraged women to have abortions. China is a dictatorship and they all but forced women to have abortions during the period where they would only allow families to have one child (it resulted in selective abortion based on sex -- too bad girls!). Should the United States be more like a dictatorship?
Originally posted by der schwarze RitterI don't think abortion has much to do with why most people have premarital sex these days. It's more a reflection of cultural changes resulting from the feminist movement as well as contraceptive technology being available. Of course, even before we had condoms, one could still do other things besides intercourse.
According to Lott:
To understand why abortion might not cut crime, one should first consider how dramatically it changed sexual relationships. Once abortion became widely available, people engaged in much more premarital sex, and also took less care in using contraceptives. Abortion, after all, offered a backup if a woman got pregnant, making ...[text shortened]... ease. Unsurprisingly, children from unmarried families are also more likely to become criminals.
Originally posted by der schwarze RitterI'm pro-choice, which means I oppose both forcing women to have abortions and forcing women not to have abortions. Each individual woman should have autonomy over this choice, at least as long as it's done before the 26 week mark where the fetus starts to feel pain.
Not allowing women to abort their children is a dictatorship? The Soviet Union was a dictatorship and they allowed and even encouraged women to have abortions. China is a dictatorship and they all but forced women to have abortions during the period where they would only allow families to have one child (it resulted in selective abortion based on sex -- too bad girls!). Should the United States be more like a dictatorship?
Originally posted by der schwarze RitterThis whole argument hinges on abortion being the cause of changing sexual relations and that's a shaky premise at best. You seriously believe there are women out there who conciensly think : "you don't have to put on a condom, if I happen to get pregnant, I can always have an abortion ?"
According to Lott:
To understand why abortion might not cut crime, one should first consider how dramatically it changed sexual relationships. Once abortion became widely available, people engaged in much more premarital sex, and also took less care in using contraceptives. Abortion, after all, offered a backup if a woman got pregnant, making ...[text shortened]... ease. Unsurprisingly, children from unmarried families are also more likely to become criminals.
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Originally posted by Henry23Except that terminating a pre-sentient fetus -- i.e. one that can't even feel pain yet, which is the case before about 26 weeks into the pregnancy -- is not murder.
You're all missing the obvious: Of course legalizing abortion increases crime, since it's a crime to murder an unborn baby, even if you legalize it! 😕
(Edit: I removed a sentence off the end of this post because I realised it was a bit inflammatory.)
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Originally posted by der schwarze RitterYour statistics are preposterous. Do have any idea how many factors go into the amount murder? You can't seriously believe this ridiculous ****.
Legalizing abortion increased crime. Those born in the four years after Roe vs. Wade were much more likely to commit murder than those born in the four years prior. This was especially true when they were in their “criminal prime,” says John R. Lott, Jr.:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,377181,00.html
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Originally posted by der schwarze RitterWhy are single-parent children more likely to commit crime? Any evidence?
He is also correct when he says legalization of abortion has led to an increase in single-parent families (which has led to far more crime than the amount reduced from the culling of "unwanted children"😉.
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Originally posted by der schwarze RitterWait, WTF? Legalizing abortion INCREASED number of single-parent families? Now I know you're just making things up.
I daresay Lott has many more skins on the wall than any of his critics -- he's also a well-respected author and researcher at the University of Maryland. He is also correct when he says legalization of abortion has led to an increase in single-parent families (which has led to far more crime than the amount reduced from the culling of "unwanted c ...[text shortened]... out of hand -- his hypothesis is still valid. For a "liberal" your thinking is very rigid.
DSR you of all people should know that allowing the *ahem* lower classes free access to abortion even at later stages of pregnancy will potentially rid society of many of it's ills.
I think in many cases, abortion should be mandatory for these people & not even an option, though of course logically sterilisation makes much more sense.
Originally posted by der schwarze RitterOh please.
Legalizing abortion increased crime. Those born in the four years after Roe vs. Wade were much more likely to commit murder than those born in the four years prior. This was especially true when they were in their “criminal prime,” says John R. Lott, Jr.:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,377181,00.html
Shut up. You're going to make my head explode.
HOW THE F^^K CAN LEGALISING ABORTIONS INCREASE CRIME???
HOW?
HOW THE FFING HOW???
God damn, where's my valium.