AIDS on the rise for boys 13-29

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
How is it different from instilling any other moral belief or system thereof? I don't intend to have children, but should I find myself in the unfortunate situation where I would have to raise them, I would most likely attempt to instill utilitarian moral values in them. Would that be "brain washing" too?

the difference is robbies religion provides a definitive set of black and white rules. children are told they must do x or y will happen. they are told that x is a fact.

my approach is to give a child options tell them why some people think x is good and why some think its bad. i think as long as a child is given a warm, loving, supportive environment to grow up in the basics such as being nice and caring come naturally.

letting a person come to their own decisions with un-biased guidance there if they need it is better than dictating how to be surely?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i would encourage them to get married.

and thats all? good. i apologize (again) i suspected you would be forced to shun them.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
indeed.

what is comparable to telling a child that god is real?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
the difference is robbies religion provides a definitive set of black and white rules. children are told they must do x or y will happen. they are told that x is a fact.

my approach is to give a child options tell them why some people think x is good and why some think its bad. i think as long as a child is given a warm, loving, supportive environmen ...[text shortened]... cisions with un-biased guidance there if they need it is better than dictating how to be surely?

this reeks of shirking responsibility, I let the children come to their own conclusions also, in fact its the sign of a great teacher, i provide reasons as to why a course may be wise or unwise and let them reason upon the implications, this is the beauty of principles, they are much more extensive than mere rules. Children need guidance and the best i can hope for in my children is a conscience that is exercised and functioning so at to be able to discern what is wise and what is unwise.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
what is comparable to telling a child that god is real?

that he does not exist for one, a stance for which you have no rational basis for asserting and certainly no empirical evidence either. However that was not the point being made, you are willing to allow that you are free to inculcate your values but object when others do the same, terming it, brain washing. Its rampant hypocrisy.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
this reeks of shirking responsibility, I let the children come to their own conclusions also, infact its the sign of a great teacher, i provide reasons as to why a course may be wise or unwise, this is the beauty of principles, they are much more extensive than mere rules. Children need guidance.

i may be misunderstanding you here. it sounds like you are saying you take a stance on each thing either its good or bad and then back that view up with evidence, is this correct?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
that he does not exist for one, a stance for which you have no rational basis for asserting and certainly no empirical evidence either. However that was not the point being made, you are willing to allow that you are free to inculcate your values but object when others do the same, terming it, brain washing. Its rampant hypocrisy.

what is hypocrisy? give me one example of my values that i have impressed on my children?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
the difference is robbies religion provides a definitive set of black and white rules. children are told they must do x or y will happen. they are told that x is a fact.

my approach is to give a child options tell them why some people think x is good and why some think its bad. i think as long as a child is given a warm, loving, supportive environmen ...[text shortened]... cisions with un-biased guidance there if they need it is better than dictating how to be surely?

There is no such thing as "unbiased guidance".

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i may be misunderstanding you here. it sounds like you are saying you take a stance on each thing either its good or bad and then back that view up with evidence, is this correct?

for example in the case of pre marital sex, there is a clear Biblical principle in that it is for the Christian, morally unacceptable. But that is not enough, one needs reason. One is free to look at evidence of its success or otherwise. One can look at teen pregnancies, the prevalence of STD's, abortion rates, look at how it has effected those who have engaged in it, emotionally, financially, look at tthe raesons why it happens, peer pressure, under-age drinking, etc etc and then look at its benefits, which i cannot think of at present except for a rather fleeting and momentary pleasure. Perhaps you can provide a reason as to why may advocate it to a child, I am at a loss.

Then on the basis of this evidence an evaluation can be reached as to whether it is the course of wisdom or not.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
what is hypocrisy? give me one example of my values that i have impressed on my children?

you dont inculcate any values in your children? wow, i wont call you out for being a bad parent just yet, but dude? your kids need guidance and advice. I cannot believe that you have not said, please do not hit your sister, or please refrain from biting her arm, or you must stop near the pavement and watch out for cars.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
There is no such thing as "unbiased guidance".

good point. its difficult to be totally unbiased, even the inclination in your voice can hint at your true feelings, but im not talking about absolutes. its just trying our best not to impress our own opinions on our children, especially when they are young. my 8 year old daughter is intellectually very mature, she asks a lot of questions so its hard to always offer her different views, but surely its better to try rather than offer one view and explain why you personally have that one view. she's been a christian for a while, she likes the royal family and is a vegetarian.....all things i disagree with, but im glad she's thought about these things listened to the different views we have given her and decided for her self.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
for example in the case of pre marital sex, there is a clear Biblical principle in that it is for the Christian, morally unacceptable. But that is not enough, one needs reason. One is free to look at evidence of its success or otherwise. One can look at teen pregnancies, the prevalence of STD's, abortion rates, look at how it has effected those wh ...[text shortened]... of this evidence an evaluation can be reached as to whether it is the course of wisdom or not.

The Bible doesn't say pre-marital sex is wrong, just that you may execute women who are "proven" not to be virgins when you marry them.

As for abortion rates and teenage pregnancies, it seems that the much larger influence of christianity in the US hasn't prevented much larger teenage pregnancy and abortion rates compared to the Netherlands.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you dont inculcate any values in your children? wow, i wont call you out for being a bad parent just yet, but dude? your kids need guidance and advice.

guidance and advice is very different to inculcating. probably not to a christian though.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you dont inculcate any values in your children? wow, i wont call you out for being a bad parent just yet, but dude? your kids need guidance and advice. I cannot believe that you have not said, please do not hit your sister, or please refrain from biting her arm, or you must stop near the pavement and watch out for cars.

I cannot believe that you have not said, please do not hit your sister, or please refrain from biting her arm, or you must stop near the pavement and watch out for cars

no never said dont hit or bite your sister, on the few occasions its happened i would sit them down and get them to talk to each other about how they feel and why it happened and was there a better way to resolve their issue. my kids are now 4 and 8 and never hit each other.

teaching a kid to cross the road is not an opinion or value. we are talking about opinions and values.



actually i can think of one thing where i press my opinion, eating healthy food, guess that makes me a hypocrite, but that also an avoiding death thing.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
The Bible doesn't say pre-marital sex is wrong, just that you may execute women who are "proven" not to be virgins when you marry them.

As for abortion rates and teenage pregnancies, it seems that the much larger influence of christianity in the US hasn't prevented much larger teenage pregnancy and abortion rates compared to the Netherlands.

Ah pantomime time, oh yes it does! oh no it doesn't, oh yes it does.

(Hebrews 13:4, 5) Let marriage be honorable among all, and the marriage bed be without defilement, for God will judge fornicators and adulterers.

If practised outside of marriage, sex is therefore considered by definition, illicit and those who engage in as fornicators, which ,as you an see, the Bible condemns.

To cite the outcome as invalidating the principle is a logical fallacy, for, clearly if those persons had actually applied the Biblical principles they would not have engaged in pre marital sex to begin with. Principles only work for those who are prepared to apply them.