1. Standard membermchill
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    12 Jan '21 10:373 edits
    After years of bad leadership from Trump, we're learning what it's like to have no leadership at all -- and during a deadly pandemic killing thousands every day, a botched vaccine rollout, sniveling about the 2020 election, and an attempt to overthrow the government, by inciting goon squads to attack our capital building, kill our citizens, and destroy government property; all while little Donnie sits back and watches, detached, and bored with the duties of being President.

    Fortunately, In addition to our legal system, Wall Street is moving to curb Trump's means to communicate his baseless lies, and bring in cash. He's lost a major golf tournament, banks will no longer lend him money, and his recent actions have only added to his multitude of legal woes.

    This is Donald Trump's political legacy, and a reminder of what happens when we elect a spoiled child in an old mans body, who thinks only of himself

    Then I'll get on my knees and pray; we don't get fooled again
    - The Who
  2. Standard memberyo its me
    watch the acid...
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    12 Jan '21 10:47
    @mchill said
    After years of bad leadership from Trump, we're learning what it's like to have no leadership at all -- and during a deadly pandemic killing thousands every day, a botched vaccine rollout, sniveling about the 2020 election, and an attempt to overthrow the government, by inciting goon squads to attack our capital building, kill our citizens, and destroy government property; all ...[text shortened]... thinks only of himself

    Then I'll get on my knees and pray; we don't get fooled again
    - The Who
    Do you feel its been a big learning experience for America, having trumpy-baby in charge?
  3. Standard membermchill
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    12 Jan '21 12:24
    @yo-its-me said
    Do you feel its been a big learning experience for America, having trumpy-baby in charge?
    Possibly, but like most of us, we'd rather have this learning experience by reading about it, than living through it. 😕
  4. Zugzwang
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    12 Jan '21 12:37
    @mchill said
    Possibly, but like most of us, we'd rather have this learning experience by reading about it, than living through it. 😕
    In the USA, almost 400000 people so far (dead of Covid-19) have NOT 'lived through it'.
  5. Zugzwang
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    12 Jan '21 12:492 edits
    @mchill said
    After years of bad leadership from Trump, we're learning what it's like to have no leadership at all -- and during a deadly pandemic killing thousands every day, a botched vaccine rollout, sniveling about the 2020 election, and an attempt to overthrow the government, by inciting goon squads to attack our capital building, kill our citizens, and destroy government property; all ...[text shortened]... thinks only of himself

    Then I'll get on my knees and pray; we don't get fooled again
    - The Who
    It could have been worse. Imagine if President Trump were a much more energetic,
    capable leader who 'went all-in' (to use an expression from poker) upon his
    mission of becoming dictator of the USA.

    Imagine that, months ago, President Trump had ordered the US military to distribute
    vast amounts of more advanced weapons (assault rifles, machine guns, mortars,
    armor-piercing weapons such as RPGs and ATGMs, light SAMs capable of shooting
    down helicopters or airliners, mines, tons of military-grade explosives) to extreme
    right-wing white nationalist militias (who were among his fanatical supporters).
    The aim would be to make the militias much better armed than the ordinary police
    and to make the police terrified of confronting them.

    If President Trump had decided to 'go all-in' on a coup d'etat, then he could have
    ordered the US military to clear the path or even to assist his favorite militias.
    Of course, many members of the military or police support Trump and already
    likely would sympathize with the militias.

    A bloodless coup d'etat is unrealistic. In that case, it's better to provoke bloodshed
    sooner rather than later, to help persuade the waverers to stop from sitting on the fence.
    Killing suspected disloyal people in one's own party tends to encourage the others.

    A much more energetic ruthless leader than Trump could have come closer to
    becoming a dictator or, at least, in instigating a civil war, where he would have
    the fanatical support of many Americans.
  6. Subscriberdivegeester
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    12 Jan '21 12:521 edit
    @mchill said
    Then I'll get on my knees and pray; we don't get fooled again
    - The Who
    “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...”

    Let’s hope not!
  7. Joined
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    12 Jan '21 13:38
    @Duchess64 Someone with charisma, lacking Trump's crude and coarse demeanor, with a history of attending a Christian church, one wife with few dalliances, a few kids who haven't gotten into too much trouble and Trump's fascist intentions may easily rise to power. If Trump is indicted, charged and sent to prison, he becomes a martyr. If he escapes legal consequences for his actions, it paves the way for future wannabe dictators to rise rapidly. Do not underestimate the damage done to our democracy by those millions among us who supported Trump. They are the problem far more than Trump and they are here to stay.
  8. Standard memberyo its me
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    12 Jan '21 13:49
    @mchill said
    Possibly, but like most of us, we'd rather have this learning experience by reading about it, than living through it. 😕
    Somethings you can't learn from books though isn't it. If the next generation really learned from history we'd all be in such a different world.

    I, for one, am hopeful that the slide back America took when they chose Trumpy is like the step back, or the stretch and look around that a runner takes before bounding down the race track.
  9. Standard memberyo its me
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    12 Jan '21 14:04
    @phranny said
    @Duchess64 Someone with charisma, lacking Trump's crude and coarse demeanor, with a history of attending a Christian church, one wife with few dalliances, a few kids who haven't gotten into too much trouble and Trump's fascist intentions may easily rise to power. If Trump is indicted, charged and sent to prison, he becomes a martyr. If he escapes legal consequences for his ac ...[text shortened]... ns among us who supported Trump. They are the problem far more than Trump and they are here to stay.
    They have less voice now.

    http://csi.nuff.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/CSI34_hate-crime.pdf
    "Racially or religiously motivated hate crime spiked following both the EU referendum and Manchester Arena bombing in May 2017"

    We're more aware of it now, we can as nations (UK and USA) be watchful and recognise dangerous leadership ideas better than we could before. People will I hope notice and maybe even point out to the kind of person you describe where that could take them, instead of politely ignoring remarks before.
    Maybe education will include teaching acceptance as well as passing exams now that the need is so obvious. This could be the turning point.

    Now that Trumpy has lost friends and world supporters his influence must have declined, seeing a lady who followed his idea shot must have impacted on some.

    Why would being punished for his crime make him a martyr? It's not like he was fighting for any cause but himself.
  10. Subscriberkevcvs57
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    12 Jan '21 14:05
    @phranny said
    @Duchess64 Someone with charisma, lacking Trump's crude and coarse demeanor, with a history of attending a Christian church, one wife with few dalliances, a few kids who haven't gotten into too much trouble and Trump's fascist intentions may easily rise to power. If Trump is indicted, charged and sent to prison, he becomes a martyr. If he escapes legal consequences for his ac ...[text shortened]... ns among us who supported Trump. They are the problem far more than Trump and they are here to stay.
    I think the term ‘civil war’ is a term that is too loosely thrown around. There may well be an organised effective insurrection by the ultra right but it will be engaging with the full force of the US government.
    Unless we think that the ensuing struggle will be evenly balanced or that a multitude of states are going to cede from the union again then it remains a problem of domestic terrorism rather than a civil war.
    The people perpetrating the violence are not an army they are loose group of potential terrorist cells. When the shooting starts the camp followers will evaporate and the enemy combatants will be isolated and annihilated politically and militarily.
  11. Zugzwang
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    12 Jan '21 17:29
    @phranny said
    @Duchess64 Someone with charisma, lacking Trump's crude and coarse demeanor, with a history of attending a Christian church, one wife with few dalliances, a few kids who haven't gotten into too much trouble and Trump's fascist intentions may easily rise to power. If Trump is indicted, charged and sent to prison, he becomes a martyr. If he escapes legal consequences for his ac ...[text shortened]... ns among us who supported Trump. They are the problem far more than Trump and they are here to stay.
    "... one wife with few dalliances ..."
    --Phranny

    Why should it matter how many 'dalliances' his wife has had? (joke)

    Imagine how more appealing Hitler would have been if he had used television.
    Imagine Leni Riefenstahl's images of him being broadcast every day.
  12. Zugzwang
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    12 Jan '21 17:37
    @kevcvs57 said
    I think the term ‘civil war’ is a term that is too loosely thrown around. There may well be an organised effective insurrection by the ultra right but it will be engaging with the full force of the US government.
    Unless we think that the ensuing struggle will be evenly balanced or that a multitude of states are going to cede from the union again then it remains a problem of ...[text shortened]... will evaporate and the enemy combatants will be isolated and annihilated politically and militarily.
    The flag-waving Americans who stormed the Capitol are only a tiny tip of the iceberg.
    A plurality (45% ) of Republican voters approve of their actions.

    When the 1916 Easter Rising took place in Dublin, it was quickly put down by the British.
    Initially, it had little popular support among the Irish. But, as the British began
    executing the participants, they became perceived as martyrs by many Irish.
    The Easter Rising led to the Irish fighting a war of independence.
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    12 Jan '21 22:16
    @yo-its-me Trump supporters, and there are over 70 million, believe he did a fabulous job as POTUS. Those that support Q Anon, like Republican Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene from Georgia, believe Trump is fighting a left wing international pedophile, cannibalistic cabal dominated by Democrats, George Soros and the Clintons. If he is imprisoned or seeks shelter in another country, his followers will believe he is being unjustly persecuted. He will be a martyr.
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    12 Jan '21 22:20
    @kevcvs57 well said and I think you are right.
  15. Standard memberyo its me
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    13 Jan '21 08:45
    @phranny said
    @yo-its-me Trump supporters, and there are over 70 million, believe he did a fabulous job as POTUS. Those that support Q Anon, like Republican Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene from Georgia, believe Trump is fighting a left wing international pedophile, cannibalistic cabal dominated by Democrats, George Soros and the Clintons. If he is imprisoned or seeks shelter in another country, his followers will believe he is being unjustly persecuted. He will be a martyr.
    The education in the US must be very poor
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