What made both Iraq and Afghanistan difficult were the resistance forces blending in with civilians putting the U.S. in a position where they had to rethink attacks, lest they kill civilians. Until the U.S. said "fck it" and started killing civilians.
I wonder if Ukraine is hoping to use similar tactics to make Russia look bad when they kill civilians as a propaganda tool to receive more foreign military aid. Ukraine has a history of corruption and attacking its own citizens; see ethnic Russians or the violent crackdown of protestors in 2014.
You and No1 once warned to take what Ukraine said in regards the grain-carrying port of Odessa, which had military weapons nearby, "with a grain of salt" after they were bombed. Seems you two may have been on to something.
Either way, not good.
@vivify saidExcept the 2014 event was organised and carried out by pro Moscow forces with the support and encouragement of Moscow.
What made both Iraq and Afghanistan difficult were the resistance forces blending in with civilians putting the U.S. in a position where they had to rethink attacks, lest they kill civilians. Until the U.S. said "fck it" and started killing civilians.
I wonder if Ukraine is hoping to use similar tactics to make Russia look bad when they kill civilians as a propaganda too ...[text shortened]... salt" after they were bombed. Seems you two may have been on to something.
Either way, not good.
The amnesty report if true is a a bad mark against the Ukrainian government but it’s ultimately the Russians that are invading the country and they are killing civilians in their droves by shelling civilian areas regardless of where Ukraine is placing its military infrastructure just as they did Chechnya and Syria so let’s not get carried away here. Would you like them to place their military kit in an open field outside of the cities and towns that Russia is turning to rubble anyway.
@kevcvs57 saidIt is a crime against humanity to use civilian areas as a base of operations without evacuating the civilian population.
Except the 2014 event was organised and carried out by pro Moscow forces with the support and encouragement of Moscow.
The amnesty report if true is a a bad mark against the Ukrainian government but it’s ultimately the Russians that are invading the country and they are killing civilians in their droves by shelling civilian areas regardless of where Ukraine is placing its m ...[text shortened]... litary kit in an open field outside of the cities and towns that Russia is turning to rubble anyway.
@kevcvs57 saidThe victims of aggression are not absolved of their responsibility to conduct their operations by the rules of war.
Except the 2014 event was organised and carried out by pro Moscow forces with the support and encouragement of Moscow.
The amnesty report if true is a a bad mark against the Ukrainian government but it’s ultimately the Russians that are invading the country and they are killing civilians in their droves by shelling civilian areas regardless of where Ukraine is placing its m ...[text shortened]... litary kit in an open field outside of the cities and towns that Russia is turning to rubble anyway.
05 Aug 22
@kevcvs57 saidThe " pro-Moscow forces" were called "the legitimate, elected government of the Ukraine."
Except the 2014 event was organised and carried out by pro Moscow forces with the support and encouragement of Moscow.
The amnesty report if true is a a bad mark against the Ukrainian government but it’s ultimately the Russians that are invading the country and they are killing civilians in their droves by shelling civilian areas regardless of where Ukraine is placing its m ...[text shortened]... litary kit in an open field outside of the cities and towns that Russia is turning to rubble anyway.
05 Aug 22
@no1marauder saidI think if your being attacked if your civilians are being murdered by bombardment regardless of where you store your military kit it becomes a technicality if you happen to have that kit in civilian areas that the enemy is bombarding anyway.
The victims of aggression are not absolved of their responsibility to conduct their operations by the rules of war.
Where would you have them store their air defence systems?
Where would you expect their armament factories to be?
Israel was making guns in basements when it was fighting for its survival were those houses legitimate targets?
Where do you think the Russians have put their military kit in the occupied zones and republics of Donbas?
It’s much easier to blame the victim and hope it just goes away.
No one is claiming the Ukraine regime is spotless or even exemplary when it comes to how it conducts its defensive war but ultimately the attacking nation must bear the lions share of the blame for the deaths of civilians in the country it declared war on and invaded.
05 Aug 22
@no1marauder saidThey can call themselves what they like but they were carrying out Putins orders when they massacred we’ll over a hundred unarmed Ukrainian ( mainly student ) demonstrators.
The " pro-Moscow forces" were called "the legitimate, elected government of the Ukraine."
05 Aug 22
@no1marauder saidExactly! crunch the numbers and you know that was in response to increasingly brutal tactics by the police and their irregular units made up of criminals released from jail for that very purpose.
At least 13 police were killed by those supposedly "unarmed students".
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05 Aug 22
@no1marauder saidstupid idea…The victims of aggression can protect themselves any way they can…
The victims of aggression are not absolved of their responsibility to conduct their operations by the rules of war.
@kevcvs57 saidYou've been given the links and know that the protests against an economic agreement quickly dissolved into an armed insurrection with deaths on both sides. The goal of insurrection was the overthrow of the elected President by radical nationalists and it succeeded.
Exactly! crunch the numbers and you know that was in response to increasingly brutal tactics by the police and their irregular units made up of criminals released from jail for that very purpose.
05 Aug 22
@no1marauder saidI was asking for a link to the claim by vivify concerning the Ukrainian forces treatment of ethnic Russians I know all about the massacre carried out by the pro Kremlin president who broke on his election manifesto of applying for EU membership at literally the 11th hour under the command of his puppet master Putin who consequently was removed from office by a massive majority of the PEOPLES representatives. Why you insist on this hypocritical fairy tale regarding his removal is beyond me given that you supported the removal of a duly elected POTUS by the peoples representatives.
You've been given the links and know that the protests against an economic agreement quickly dissolved into an armed insurrection with deaths on both sides. The goal of insurrection was the overthrow of the elected President by radical nationalists and it succeeded.