Apple labor abuses

Originally posted by FMF
More irrelevant blather aimed at offsetting your flippant nastiness, I guess.

And this from the most acerbic, vitriolic nimrod on the forums. The Fact is you screwed the cobbler. You screwed him long, lean and continuous. You believe in fair wages and compensation as long as you don't have to pay it. You are a nasty, nasty individual indeed. You must be a right winger.

GRANNY.

Originally posted by smw6869
The Fact is you screwed the cobbler. You screwed him long, lean and continuous. You believe in fair wages and compensation as long as you don't have to pay it. You are a nasty, nasty individual indeed.

OK. Whatever you say.

Originally posted by FMF
The price I paid him was the same as I would have paid for a pair of 'mass produced' shoes (stitched together in a dungeon somewhere) for sale in a chain shop down the road.

then you ripped him off. those were HANDMADE. no economies of scale!

Originally posted by zeeblebot
then you ripped him off. those were HANDMADE. no economies of scale!

Not so. They are made in pretty much exactly the same way as they are made in the factory. There it is partly automated, and his work too is partly automated. I sat in his workshop as he measured my feet and took photos of the old shoes I wanted a 'copy' of. He received about 10 times more than if he had been working for a factory and significantly more than a local person would have given him for the shoes because I almost invariably decline the opportunity to haggle the price if what is asked for seems to me to be reasonable. He set the price. I can't see how this is in any way a case of me "ripping him off" and, indeed, I think both you and GRANNY are motivated here by little more than small-mindedness.

What 'economies of scale' do sweatshop stitchers benefit from? I think you'll find it's consumers in the West and the owners of the "sweatshop" operations that benefit from 'economies of scale' not ordinary working folk. You seem so intent on landing some kind of blow here, you're sounding a bit petty and clueless.

not really. it's spot on. pay him the $90 or $190 we'd expect to pay for handmade shoes here. so you can sleep at night.

Originally posted by zeeblebot
not really. it's spot on. pay him the $90 or $190 we'd expect to pay for handmade shoes here. so you can sleep at night.

What a totally ignorant jibe. You have no idea. It's funny how silly right wing internet warriors like you... (especially here where we get a glimpse of your grey matter with you cut & pasteless) ... you create these kinds of daft strawmen to misrepresent the principles of economic justice. What is the relevence of $190 for a pair of shoes in the U.S. to the price of shoes in Indonesia? Do you not have even the first idea about the world economy or the differences between economies around the world?

Originally posted by FMF
What a totally ignorant jibe. You have no idea. It's funny how silly right wing internet warriors like you... (especially here where we get a glimpse of your grey matter with you cut & pasteless) ... you create these kinds of daft strawmen to misrepresent the principles of economic justice. What is the relevence of $190 for a pair of shoes in the U.S. to the pri ...[text shortened]... n the first idea about the world economy or the differences between economies around the world?

you are over there castigating the rest of us while you take advantage of the poor cobbler by being on location.

and paying in rupiahs.

Originally posted by zeeblebot
you are over there castigating the rest of us while you take advantage of the poor cobbler by being on location.

I am in the Indonesian economy. I receive a local rate of pay. In Rupiah. In what way do you claim I am "taking advantage" of the cobbler? And what makes you say he is "poor"?

he's got expats paying him teeny prices for shoes that would price at orders of magnitude more overseas. that's pay disparity!

just go back and tell him you forgot the tip. save face.

Originally posted by zeeblebot
he's got expats paying him teeny prices for shoes that would price at orders of magnitude more overseas. that's pay disparity!

The shoes he made me cost about $40 which is quite a lot of money over here. Were you under the impression that wages and the cost of living here in Indonesia are comparable to the U.S.? Even if he wanted to, he couldn't sell his shoes overseas because he'd be undercut by the produce from the "sweatshop" operations. I think you may have some kind of wobbly stereotype of what "expat" means. I am sure he would try to get more than $40 from an expat if he happened to know he or she was on an 'international salary'. You are still trying to land petty blows zeeblebot. And it's just uncovering how little you know about the way the world works.

I've just been reliably informed that if the cobbler tried to supply an exporter with these "$40 shoes" he'd be offered about $10 a pair. This comes from a furniture exporter (who knows about these things) with whom I am having a drink in a cafe, as I type this, and who has had a bit of a laugh at zeeblebot's expense, having just read this thread.

Originally posted by FMF
Not so. They are made in pretty much exactly the same way as they are made in the factory. There it is partly automated, and his work too is partly automated. I sat in his workshop as he measured my feet and took photos of the old shoes I wanted a 'copy' of. He received about 10 times more than if he had been working for a factory and significantly more than a l ntent on landing some kind of blow here, you're sounding a bit petty and clueless.

i think that you're stance is admirable FMF, motivated through an empathetic understanding of the cobblers circumstances. Yes you may have haggled like an American tourist and demanded a box to go and someone to carry your shoes for you to your air conditioned SUV and free weiners , but no, there is an understanding written all over this episode. However my friend you are battling against ignorance.

Originally posted by FMF
I've just been reliably informed that if the cobbler tried to supply an exporter with these "$40 shoes" he'd be offered about $10 a pair. This comes from a furniture exporter (who knows about these things) with whom I am having a drink in a cafe, as I type this, and who has had a bit of a laugh at zeeblebot's expense, having just read this thread.

I have to say that, although of course you're right (and I'm not even sure Z's being completely serious in needling you), watching GRANNY and Zeeblebot tag team you about not paying enough for a pair of handmade shoes is rather amusing. All in all, this thread has been a good show. (You don't seem like the type to mind a little chuckle here and there at your expense 😉)