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@metal-brain saidYou know I won't make bets with you since you insist on being the only judge and jury as to the facts and that's not what a bet is.
If you are really that confident of that you should have no problem making a bet on it with the usual terms. End of month deadline. Agreed?
Johnson didn't even know the Liberty had been attacked until almost 2 hours after the incident. By that time, Israel had already informed the US Naval Attache in Tel Aviv that it was Israeli forces that had struck the Liberty:
"An hour and eleven minutes after the Liberty was attacked, the National Military Command Center (NMCC) in the Pentagon was phoned by CINCEUR and told of the situation as known. At 0915 hours (DST), 8 June, NMCC phoned the NSA Sigint
Command Center to notify NSA of the attack. 20
(U) At the White House, President Lyndon B. Johnson was busy telephoning cabinet members and congressional leaders when he was interrupted at
0949 hours (DST) by Walt Rostow, his Special Assistant for National Security Affairs, and told that "the Liberty, has been torpedoed in the Mediterranean.
The ship is located 60-100 miles north of Egypt. Reconnaissance aircraft are out from the 6th fleet . . . . no knowledge of the submarine or surface vessel
which committed this act .... shall keep you informed." 21
(U) Rostow phoned again at 1014 hours to advise the President that the Liberty was "listing badly to starboard. The Saratoga has launched 4-A4's
and 4-A l's .... " 22
Israel Reports Error (U)
(U) In Tel Aviv, Israel, the U.S. Naval
Attache, Commander E. C. Castle, was called to the Foreign Liaison Office, Israel Defence Force at approximately 1600 hours (local time) and told that Israeli
air and sea forces had attacked the Liberty in error. Immediately the U.S. Defense Attache office sent a Flash message to advise the White House, Department
of State, and others of this development. 23
https://www.nsa.gov/portals/75/documents/news-features/declassified-documents/uss-liberty/chronology-events/attack-sigint.pdf
The attack occurred from 1400 to 1435 local time.
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@no1marauder saidYeah, because the NSA is a trusted source of information. Idiot.
You know I won't make bets with you since you insist on being the only judge and jury as to the facts and that's not what a bet is.
Johnson didn't even know the Liberty had been attacked until almost 2 hours after the incident. By that time, Israel had already informed the US Naval Attache in Tel Aviv that it was Israeli forces that had struck the Liberty:
"An hour ...[text shortened]... uss-liberty/chronology-events/attack-sigint.pdf
The attack occurred from 1400 to 1435 local time.
Is the CIA website going to be your next source?
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@metal-brain saidLMAO!
Yeah, because the NSA is a trusted source of information. Idiot.
Is the CIA website going to be your next source?
Let's see, you use the "Lions of Liberty" for your information and a host of wacky conspiracy sites.
I use a classified document that was not released to the public until 2006 giving specific information from the sailors on board and from government officials in Washington, DC.
This is why a bet with you is utterly worthless.
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@no1marauder saidThe USS Liberty was a NSA ship. Find another source.
LMAO!
Let's see, you use the "Lions of Liberty" for your information and a host of wacky conspiracy sites.
I use a classified document that was not released to the public until 2006 giving specific information from the sailors on board and from government officials in Washington, DC.
This is why a bet with you is utterly worthless.
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@no1marauder
The Liberty's survivors say that Israel had to have known that the vessel was American -- flying an American flag -- and the attack was made without warning or justification.
You are listening to everybody but the survivors of the USS Liberty.
You are claiming it was not a false flag because Israel thought it was a false flag.
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@no1marauder saidThat is not true.
One of the sailors on the Liberty identified the planes by their markers and supposedly wept because he was Jewish.
The torpedo boats were clearly marked.
The ship wasn't unarmed though it could be characterized as "lightly armed". It had four mounted .50 caliber machine guns.
Your last sentence is hilarious considering you fall hook, line and sinker for virtuall ...[text shortened]... own purveyor of absurd conspiracies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Morrow_(Texas_politician)
From the link below:
"In 2005, the USS Liberty Veterans Association submitted a report to the DoD asking for a formal investigation, unsatisfied by the Navy's 1967 inquiry. The report, summarized by the survivors, in part said that their radios were jammed, preventing distress frequencies from reaching superiors; the Israeli aircraft attacking the Liberty were unmarked; and the planes deliberately strafed their life rafts, anticipating that the sailors would abandon ship."
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/06/08/were-fed-it-survivors-of-uss-liberty-look-answers-55-years-later.html
Download the USS Liberty Veterans Association report to the DoD asking for a formal investigation from the link above. Here are some excerpts from the pdf I downloaded from the link above:
"The White House deliberately prevented the U.S. Navy from coming to the defense of USS Liberty by recalling Sixth Fleet military rescue support while the ship was under attack; evidence of the recall of rescue aircraft is supported by statements of Captain Joe Tully, Commanding Officer of the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga, and Rear Admiral Lawrence Geis, the Sixth Fleet carrier division commander, at the time of the attack; never before in American naval history has a rescuemission been cancelled when an American ship was under attack;
That although Liberty was saved from almost certain destruction through the heroic efforts of the ship's Captain, William L. McGonagle (MOH), and his brave crew, surviving crewmembers were later threatened with "court-martial, imprisonment or worse" if they exposed the truth; and were abandoned by their own government"
@sonhouse saidI myself have always been a big fan of sonhouse. I still listen to this inventor of the Bagdad battery who gets his jollies off spanking the monkey to the list of Nobel Prize winners and discussing them as if he himself has risen above them. His intellectual showmanship masks the self disappointment that he is a loser that sits on the sidelines grasping at scientific conversation mending his ego with at least some form of participation.
@Metal-Brain
Funny how nobody listens to you anymore. You are a floating joke here and you are way too stupid to realize it.
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@sonhouse saidsonhouse I am not sure if you are adding to the comment I made about you or if directing it at me. In case it is the latter, I didn't notice my comment was any more negative than your quote about another person. I don't have it in front of me but you called him stupid. That isn't very nice sonhouse. Straighten up and fly right.
@joe-beyser
And he thrives on negative attention. The only way he can get attention at all.
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@metal-brain saidI believe every fact reported by the crew of the Liberty. Theodore Arfsten, who said that a Jewish sailor on board saw the Star of David on the planes, was a member of that crew. Others may not have seen them during the attack - they had other things to worry about - and before then the planes were at 5,000 to 7,000 feet in the air and 2 to 6 miles away from the Liberty making ID difficult.
That is not true.
From the link below:
"In 2005, the USS Liberty Veterans Association submitted a report to the DoD asking for a formal investigation, unsatisfied by the Navy's 1967 inquiry. The report, summarized by the survivors, in part said that their radios were jammed, preventing distress frequencies from reaching superiors; the Israeli aircraft attacking the Li ...[text shortened]... rtial, imprisonment or worse" if they exposed the truth; and were abandoned by their own government"
I read the report a long time ago. Nothing I have said is inconsistent with the facts it gives.
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@no1marauder saidA failed false flag operation is still a false flag operation. Had that ship gone down quickly and no survivors as witnesses the official reports may have been much different. I don't know how anyone can know what really happened. It seems unlikely that a US ship would have been attacked flying its colors and radio communications were functional. The fact that Israel confessed to the attack could be the only thing they could do because it didn't go down as planned and information could not be contained. On the other hand it doesn't seem likely the attack of a US ship by marked planes would have been done as a false flag event. Just because false flag operations are a standard operation procedure by nations does not mean everything we see are false flag events.
The fact that Israel informed the US Military Attache in Tel Aviv that it was Israeli forces that attacked the Liberty less than an hour and a half afterwards (he was then transported to the Liberty itself) makes the "false flag" claim untenable.
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@no1marauder saidThe planes were unmarked. You read disinformation.
I believe every fact reported by the crew of the Liberty. Theodore Arfsten, who said that a Jewish sailor on board saw the Star of David on the planes, was a member of that crew. Others may not have seen them during the attack - they had other things to worry about - and before then the planes were at 5,000 to 7,000 feet in the air and 2 to 6 miles away from the Liberty m ...[text shortened]...
I read the report a long time ago. Nothing I have said is inconsistent with the facts it gives.