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@no1marauder saidIgnoring the evidence is how a 5 year old "debates". What are you afraid of?
Parroting the same thing over and over and over again is how a 5 year old "debates".
It is a PDF. I cannot post a link to a PDF that I am aware of.
I think you are afraid of the evidence.
@metal-brain saidWhat "evidence" do they present in that document that the planes were "unmarked"?
Ignoring the evidence is how a 5 year old "debates". What are you afraid of?
It is a PDF. I cannot post a link to a PDF that I am aware of.
I think you are afraid of the evidence.
The answer is "none". It's an allegation based on the fact that no one on the Liberty was able to identity them at the time (except the Jewish sailor according to Arfsten's statement) but as Captain McGonagle said there were valid reasons why identification could not be made.
And anyway, the Israeli Mirages and Super Mysteres which did the attack were French made and dissimilar from the MIGS the Egyptian Air Force used, so it would be ridiculous for the Israelis to think that by not marking them (in a war zone mind you) that they would be mistaken for Egyptian planes.
@no1marauder
Also from this website you posted:
"The recall of two flights of rescue aircraft that had een launched from Sixth Fleet aircraft carriers. After those flights were recalled, Sixth Fleet personnel listened to our calls for help as the attack continued knowing they were forbidden to come to our assistance."
https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/
Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered them recalled to the carrier, and they never reached the Liberty. Explain that.
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@metal-brain saidAlready did from their own report:
@no1marauder
Also from this website you posted:
"The recall of two flights of rescue aircraft that had een launched from Sixth Fleet aircraft carriers. After those flights were recalled, Sixth Fleet personnel listened to our calls for help as the attack continued knowing they were forbidden to come to our assistance."
https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/
Secreta ...[text shortened]... ert McNamara ordered them recalled to the carrier, and they never reached the Liberty. Explain that.
"Shortly after the Sixth Fleet transmission of the rules of engagement to its dispatched rescue aircraft, the Israeli torpedo boats suddenly broke off their attack and transmitted messages asking if USS Liberty required assistance.29 At the same time, an Israeli naval officer notified the US Naval Attaché at the American Embassy in Tel Aviv that Israeli forces had mistakenly attacked a United States Navy ship and apologized. The Naval Attaché notified the United States Sixth Fleet30 and the rescue aircraft were recalled before they arrived at the scene of the attack.31"
https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/files/War%20Crimes%20Report.pdf pp. 8-9
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@no1marauder saidThe “Moorer Commission” (Chaired by Adm. Moorer) investigated the attack and
Already did from their own report:
"Shortly after the Sixth Fleet transmission of the rules of engagement to its dispatched rescue aircraft, the Israeli torpedo boats suddenly broke off their attack and transmitted messages asking if USS Liberty required assistance.29 At the same time, an Israeli naval officer notified the US Naval Attaché at the American Embassy in Te ...[text shortened]... of the attack.[/b]31"
https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/files/War%20Crimes%20Report.pdf pp. 8-9
made the following findings:
“We, the undersigned, having undertaken an independent investigation of Israel's attack
on USS Liberty, including eyewitness testimony from surviving crewmembers, a review
of naval and other official records, an examination of official statements by the Israeli
and American governments, a study of the conclusions of all previous official inquiries,
and a consideration of important new evidence and recent statements from individuals
having direct knowledge of the attack or the cover up, hereby find the following:
1. That on June 8, 1967, after eight hours of aerial surveillance, Israel launched a two-
hour air and naval attack against USS Liberty, the world's most sophisticated intelligence
ship, inflicting 34 dead and 173 wounded American servicemen (a casualty rate of sev-
enty percent, in a crew of 294);
2. That the Israeli air attack lasted approximately 25 minutes, during which time un-
marked Israeli aircraft dropped napalm canisters on USS Liberty's bridge, and fired
30mm cannons and rockets into our ship, causing 821 holes, more than 100 of which
were rocket-size; survivors estimate 30 or more sorties were flown over the ship by a
minimum of 12 attacking Israeli planes which were jamming all five American emergency
radio channels;
3. That the torpedo boat attack involved not only the firing of torpedoes, but the ma-
chine-gunning of Liberty's firefighters and stretcher-bearers as they struggled to save
their ship and crew; the Israeli torpedo boats later returned to machine-gun at close
range three of the Liberty's life rafts that had been lowered into the water by survivors to
rescue the most seriously wounded;
4. That there is compelling evidence that Israel's attack was a deliberate attempt to de-
stroy an American ship and kill her entire crew; evidence of such intent is supported by
statements from Secretary of State Dean Rusk, Undersecretary of State George Ball,
former CIA director Richard Helms, former NSA directors Lieutenant General William
Odom, USA (Ret.), Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, USN (Ret.), and Marshal Carter; former
NSA deputy directors Oliver Kirby and Major General John Morrison, USAF (Ret.); and
former Ambassador Dwight Porter, U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon in 1967;
5. That in attacking USS Liberty, Israel committed acts of murder against American ser-
vicemen and an act of war against the United States;
6. That fearing conflict with Israel, the White House deliberately prevented the U.S. Navy
from coming to the defense of USS Liberty by recalling Sixth Fleet military rescue sup-
port while the ship was under attack; evidence of the recall of rescue aircraft is sup-
ported by statements of Captain Joe Tully, Commanding Officer of the aircraft carrier
USS Saratoga, and Rear Admiral Lawrence Geis, the Sixth Fleet carrier division com-
22mander, at the time of the attack; never before in American naval history has a rescue
mission been cancelled when an American ship was under attack;
7. That although Liberty was saved from almost certain destruction through the heroic ef-
forts of the ship's Captain, William L. McGonagle (MOH), and his brave crew, surviving
crewmembers were later threatened with "court-martial, imprisonment or worse" if they
exposed the truth; and were abandoned by their own government;
8. That due to the influence of Israel's powerful supporters in the United States, the
White House deliberately covered up the facts of this attack from the American people;
9. That due to continuing pressure by the pro-Israel lobby in the United States, this at-
tack remains the only serious naval incident that has never been thoroughly investigated
by Congress; to this day, no surviving crewmember has been permitted to officially and
publicly testify about the attack;
10. That there has been an official cover-up without precedent in American naval history;
the existence of such a cover-up is now supported by statements of Rear Admiral Merlin
Staring, USN (Ret.), former Judge Advocate General of the Navy; and Captain Ward
Boston, USN, (Ret.), the chief counsel to the Navy's 1967 Court of Inquiry of Liberty at-
tack;
11. That the truth about Israel's attack and subsequent White House cover-up continues
to be officially concealed from the American people to the present day and is a national
disgrace;
12. That a danger to our national security exists whenever our elected officials are willing
to subordinate American interests to those of any foreign nation, and specifically are un-
willing to challenge Israel's interests when they conflict with American interests; this pol-
icy, evidenced by the failure to defend USS Liberty and the subsequent official cover-up
of the Israeli attack, endangers the safety of Americans and the security of the United
States.
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@no1marauder saidThat fearing conflict with Israel, the White House deliberately prevented the U.S. Navy from coming to the defense of USS Liberty by recalling Sixth Fleet military rescue support while the ship was under attack; evidence of the recall of rescue aircraft is supported by statements of Captain Joe Tully, Commanding Officer of the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga, and Rear Admiral Lawrence Geis, the Sixth Fleet carrier division commander, at the time of the attack; never before in American naval history has a rescue mission been cancelled when an American ship was under attack;
Already did from their own report:
"Shortly after the Sixth Fleet transmission of the rules of engagement to its dispatched rescue aircraft, the Israeli torpedo boats suddenly broke off their attack and transmitted messages asking if USS Liberty required assistance.29 At the same time, an Israeli naval officer notified the US Naval Attaché at the American Embassy in Te ...[text shortened]... of the attack.[/b]31"
https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/files/War%20Crimes%20Report.pdf pp. 8-9
7. That although Liberty was saved from almost certain destruction through the heroic efforts of the ship's Captain, William L. McGonagle (MOH), and his brave crew, surviving crewmembers were later threatened with "court-martial, imprisonment or worse" if they exposed the truth; and were abandoned by their own government;
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@metal-brain saidThe Liberty wasn't under attack when the planes were recalled.
That fearing conflict with Israel, the White House deliberately prevented the U.S. Navy from coming to the defense of USS Liberty by recalling Sixth Fleet military rescue support while the ship was under attack; evidence of the recall of rescue aircraft is supported by statements of Captain Joe Tully, Commanding Officer of the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga, and Rear Admir ...[text shortened]... rtial, imprisonment or worse" if they exposed the truth; and were abandoned by their own government;
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@no1marauder saidThe pilots left because the ship was sinking. I don't dispute the the attack stopped, but you have several people who testified that someone told them a different story.
The Liberty wasn't under attack when the planes were recalled.
Did that person lie? Could be.
You have two different stories. Which one are you to believe?
You already got lied to and believed it. Why should I believe crap you got from the NSA website? They already lied to you.
@metal-brain saidYou got bad information from crap sites and swallowed it hook, line and sinker.
The pilots left because the ship was sinking. I don't dispute the the attack stopped, but you have several people who testified that someone told them a different story.
Did that person lie? Could be.
You have two different stories. Which one are you to believe?
You already got lied to and believed it. Why should I believe crap you got from the NSA website? They already lied to you.
The Liberty listed to starboard at 9 degrees but was never in real danger of sinking: "Reports received from damage control central indicated that the flooding was under control." p. 38 of 83
The planes from the Saratoga and America weren't launched until 1516 and couldn't have reached the Liberty until 1715. p. 39 of 83 That would have been more than two and a half hours after the attack had ended.
As already shown:
"In Tel Aviv, Israel, the U.S. Naval Attache, Commander E. C. Castle, was called to the
Foreign Liaison Office, Israel Defence Force at approximately 1600 hours (local time) and told that Israeli air and sea forces had attacked the Liberty in error.
Immediately the U.S. Defense Attache office sent a Flash message to advise the White House, Department of State, and others of this development. 23
p. 40 of 83
All references to: https://www.nsa.gov/portals/75/documents/news-features/declassified-documents/uss-liberty/chronology-events/attack-sigint.pdf
So the planes were recalled long after the attack had ended and couldn't have reached the Liberty for several hours. Subsequent information made their mission unnecessary; Washington and the Sixth Fleet were aware that it was Israeli forces that had struck her and that the Israeli government was claiming it was in error - thus combat aircraft over the Liberty were no longer needed.
@metal-brain saidOf course you can link to a PDF. It is, perhaps, the best format available to download or to link to. Most printers render it natively.
Ignoring the evidence is how a 5 year old "debates". What are you afraid of?
It is a PDF. I cannot post a link to a PDF that I am aware of.
I think you are afraid of the evidence.
@no1marauder said1. Seriously, just WHO did Israel think they were bombing? 2.,,, and WHY did they bomb it?
Already did from their own report:
"Shortly after the Sixth Fleet transmission of the rules of engagement to its dispatched rescue aircraft, the Israeli torpedo boats suddenly broke off their attack and transmitted messages asking if USS Liberty required assistance.29 At the same time, an Israeli naval officer notified the US Naval Attaché at the American Embassy in Te ...[text shortened]... of the attack.[/b]31"
https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/files/War%20Crimes%20Report.pdf pp. 8-9
Pilots are trained to identify ships by their profile, and no navy in the world had a ship quite like the Liberty.
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@no1marauder saidIt was from your link, the website from the survivors of the USS Liberty.
You got bad information from crap sites and swallowed it hook, line and sinker.
The Liberty listed to starboard at 9 degrees but was never in real danger of sinking: "Reports received from damage control central indicated that the flooding was under control." p. 38 of 83
The planes from the Saratoga and America weren't launched until 1516 and couldn't have reached t ...[text shortened]... vernment was claiming it was in error - thus combat aircraft over the Liberty were no longer needed.
You are calling your own link false.
@earl-of-trumps saidThe hypothesis that fits the known facts best is that they thought it was an Egyptian ship flying a US flag as a ruse of war.
1. Seriously, just WHO did Israel think they were bombing? 2.,,, and WHY did they bomb it?
Pilots are trained to identify ships by their profile, and no navy in the world had a ship quite like the Liberty.
That they were incredibly careless and negligent in this belief is a given IMO.
@no1marauder saidSo you think it was not a false flag because Israel thought it was a false flag.
The hypothesis that fits the known facts best is that they thought it was an Egyptian ship flying a US flag as a ruse of war.
That they were incredibly careless and negligent in this belief is a given IMO.
Right?
Do you think the Gulf of Tonkin incident was a false flag or did that happen just as they reported back then? What would you call the Gulf of Tonkin incident? An intelligence failure?
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@Metal-Brain
You really thrive on negative attention. I don't think you give a rats ass what happened to the Liberty, you just want attention and will post thread after thread with that in mind.
Funny how you refuse to attack Putin for instance or why Navalny is in a Siberian prison. Or any of the OTHER dictators around the globe, Kim Jon Un or any of the others, it is ALWAYS some crime you want to push out committed by either the US or Israel.