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  1. 11 Sep '15 20:47 / 4 edits
    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/08/charlotte-proudman-alexander-carter-silk-linkedin-photo-comment-law-firms

    "Barrister hits out over sexist comment on her LinkedIn photo by legal expert"
    --Ben Quinn

    Charlotte Proudman (age 27), a barrister in human rights law, received
    a message from Alexander Carter-Silk (age 57) that she criticized as sexist.

    "I appreciate that this is probably horrendously politically incorrect but
    that is a stunning picture (of Charlotte Proudman in her website profile)."
    --Alexander Carter-Silk

    Charlotte Proudman replied:
    "Alex, I find your message offensive. I am on linked-in for business purposes
    not to be approached about my physical appearance or objectified by sexist men.
    The eroticisation of women's physical appearance is a way of exercising power
    over women. It silences women's professional attributes as their physical
    appearance becomes the subject. Unacceptable and misogynistic behaviour.
    Think twice before sending another woman (half your age) such a sexist message."
    --Charlotte Proudman (to Alexander Carter-Silk)

    "Widespread, casual demeaning behavior directed towards women is a
    form of social policing, gender control and a hidden form of social violence."
    --Charlotte Proudman (on Twitter)

    "(I) will endure misogynistic backlash that accompanies calling out sexism in hope that
    it encourages at least one woman to feel she doesn't need to take it."
    --Charlotte Proudman (on Twitter)

    As she expected, Charlotte Proudman already has been viciously attacked by many trolls.

    What do I think of this? I would like to say, 'Brava, Charlotte! I know how you feel.'
    Yet, personally, I would have been less confrontational toward Alexander Carter-Silk.
    It's common for women in public spaces (including writing on the internet) to become
    the targets of unsolicited comments about their physical appearance. At RHP I have
    been the target of such insults by my trolls (particularly Normbenign, a rape apologist).
    (As I recall, Sasquatch672 once speculated with some accuracy about how I look.)
    Many men like to attack how women look in attempting to intimidate or silence them.
    I essentially concur with what Charlotte Proudman writes about sexism and misogyny.

    Yet, if I had been in her place, I would have shown more forbearance toward Alexander Carter-Silk,
    given that his intended 'compliment' took place on his initial approach. If he had persisted
    with comments on my looks, then I likely would have objected like Charlotte Proudman did.
    I would have replied: "While you may regard your comment about my 'stunning' looks as
    a flattering compliment, I would like to make it clear that this is a professional website
    and I prefer to keep our communications strictly professional, without any personal comments.
    To give you the benefit of any doubt (given the differences in our generations' upbringings),
    I hope that you will understand that while some women may 'gracefully' accept your
    'compliment', other women would consider it an unwarranted sexist comment, and you
    risk causing offence if you persist." Then *if* Alexander Carter-Silk had replied:
    "I didn't know what I wrote could be considered offensive, and I'm sorry if you were offended.
    I shall keep our communications strictly professional in the future." I would have moved on
    without thinking too badly of him.

    By the way, I thought that Charlotte Proudman's comment about Alexander Carter-Silk
    being 'twice her age' was unnecessary. Both of them are adults, and his message to her
    would have been neither more nor less appropriate if he had been the same age as she.

    Now it has been revealed that Charlotte Proudman herself has commented (Facebook)
    on some men's physical appearance, thus exposing her to accusations of hypocrisy.
    OK, Charlotte Proudman's not a flawless feminist heroine; she's not perfect.
    But her errors don't mean that she's not right in much of what she writes about sexism.
  2. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    11 Sep '15 21:04
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/08/charlotte-proudman-alexander-carter-silk-linkedin-photo-comment-law-firms

    "Barrister hits out over sexist comment on her LinkedIn photo by legal expert"
    --Ben Quinn

    Charlotte Proudman (age 27), a barrister in human rights law, received
    a message from Alexander Carter-Silk (age 57) that she criticized as s ...[text shortened]... icing, gender control and a hidden form of social violence."
    --Charlotte Proudman (on Twitter)
    Another revolting atitude from a woman than can't even take a compliment about her looks. These feminist women are continuing to get more asinine all the time.
  3. 11 Sep '15 21:48
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Another revolting atitude from a woman than can't even take a compliment about her looks.
    These feminist women are continuing to get more asinine all the time.
    'I define myself as a feminist who supports the liberation of women. ...
    Equalists ignore the gendered nature of the oppression of women."
    --Charlotte Proudman

    "Of course I am not a man-hating Feminazi. That is an incredibly insulting thing to say
    and just another mechanism to silence women."
    --Charlotte Proudman

    "There is a continuum between receiving a sexist message on LinkedIn and being discriminated
    against in the workplace, It has a huge profound effect on women's career opportunities,
    making them feel uncomfortable working in male-dominated places, for example in the law.
    That is why I try to nip in the bud before it escalates."
    --Charlotte Proudman
  4. 11 Sep '15 22:02 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Another revolting atitude from a woman than can't even take a compliment about her looks.
    These feminist women are continuing to get more asinine all the time.
    RJHinds cannot keep his appalling sexism and misogyny under control.
    RJHinds regards it as appropriate to speak of another RHP member as a 'sex slave'.

    "I doubt of ISIS would take Duchess(64) as a sex slave. They certainly couldn't get any money for her.
    No man would want to put up with her. They are sure to chop her head off in nothing flat."
    --RJHinds ("Rape Apologists Need an Exercise in Empathy", page 53, post 5)

    Some of my trolls have denied that any sexism exists here, and I expect them to keep denying it.
  5. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    11 Sep '15 23:04 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/08/charlotte-proudman-alexander-carter-silk-linkedin-photo-comment-law-firms

    "Barrister hits out over sexist comment on her LinkedIn photo by legal expert"
    --Ben Quinn

    Charlotte Proudman (age 27), a barrister in human rights law, received
    a message from Alexander Carter-Silk (age 57) that she criticized as s ...[text shortened]... erfect.
    But her errors don't mean that she's not right in much of what she writes about sexism.
    You are not required to post a photo on LinkedIn. If Ms. Proudman was so concerned that she might be "objectified" because of her physical appearance, perhaps she could have foregone posting a photo.

    In truth, it has been shown in numerous studies that an attractive physical appearance enhances positive responses in business environments. This is probably reflected in this figure:

    Did you know that LinkedIn profiles with photos receive 50-70% more inquires than profiles without?

    http://www.careerealism.com/linkedin-photo-tips/

    It seems like Ms. Proudman wants to have her cake and eat it too though the comment was probably inappropriate.
  6. 11 Sep '15 23:12
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-politics/11856172/When-did-women-become-such-whingers-Accepting-compliments-appears-to-be-a-woefully-lost-art.html

    I concur with most of what Judith Woods wrote. Yet I have to say that dealing with real or
    perceived sexism tends to be a judgment call, and different women have different sensitivities.

    "In truth, it reflects badly on both of them. I put it to you, ladies and gentlemen of the jury,
    is it a greater crime to be lecherous or humourless?"
    --Judith Woods

    Having a sense of humour is desirable but not required. But being non-lecherous
    (at least in the sense of avoiding sexual harassment complaints) is mandatory.

    "Up to that point, most of us (women) would have been on her side, even if her outrage
    did seem to be something of an overreaction. ... she (Charlotte Proudman) took the
    graceless decision to circulate the exchange on social media."
    --Judith Woods

    Personally, I would not have escalated this dispute as much as Charlotte Proudman did.
  7. 11 Sep '15 23:45 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    You are not required to post a photo on LinkedIn. If Ms. Proudman was so concerned that she might be "objectified" because of her physical appearance, perhaps she could have foregone posting a photo.

    In truth, it has been shown in numerous studies that an attractive physical appearance enhances positive responses in business environments. This is prob ...[text shortened]... s. Proudman wants to have her cake and eat it too though the comment was probably inappropriate.
    While I have generally approved of Charlotte Proudman's statements against sexism,
    I have made it clear that I would have handled this particular incident differently.
    I don't how many similar comments about her photo she may already have received.

    In order to reduce the baneful influence of racism, sexism, or 'looksism' in general,
    perhaps LinkedIn should prohibit all members from posting photos of themselves.

    "In truth, it has been shown in numerous studies that an attractive physical appearance
    enhances positive responses in business environments."
    --No1Marauder

    My parents already told me that (and much more).

    On one occasion, a lawyer (much older and taller) approached me in the library.
    Our conversation was sufficiently interesting for him (after about thirty minutes) to invite
    me to dinner that evening. Assuming that I also was a lawyer (or at least an aspiring one)--
    he said that he considered me very intelligent, articulate, and skilled in argument--he
    claimed that he was well-connected in the legal establishment and could help my career.
    He also said that he had some important friends and contacts in the academic establishment.
    While I believed that he was genuinely impressed by my mind, I suspected that another
    reason why he was so eager 'to get to know me better' was that he really liked my looks.
    And he seemed nice enough for me to be intrigued enough to accept his offer.
    My intuition said that he seemed old-fashioned and a bit awkward, but he did not seem dangerous.
    I thought "You only live once, so why not try to get to know some more diverse people?"
    Afterward, a rather paranoid woman in my family attempted to dissuade me from going
    out with him, expressing her fears of me becoming entangled in some lurid scenarios.
    So I promised to phone her (with a secret 'safe word' ) at a specific time, just in case.

    As far as I can recall it, dinner went moderately well. Our conversation soon showed
    that, notwithstanding some common cultural interests, he and I were politically far apart.
    I told him (honestly) that I was unaccustomed to drinking much, and he responded by
    encouraging me to drink as much wine as possible. I recall increasingly less of what
    happened as time went on, though I did know enough to stop drinking at one point.
    He kindly suggested that if I was not feeling quite like myself, I would be welcome to spend
    the night at his place nearby. I declined and managed to get home without incident.
    Later, he asked me if I would be interested in getting paid to write for his political party.
    Looking back on it now, I would not say my evening was dreadful, just disappointing,
    and I might have been naive to expect it to have gone any better.
  8. 12 Sep '15 00:40 / 1 edit
    Here are some more comments by women:

    "Charlotte Proudman's response is idealistic, the tone typical of younger women before
    they realise the whole world is so sexist they had better just get on with it or they will be
    arguing for so many hours of the day they won't get anything else done."
    --Melissa Kite (in 'The Spectator' )

    "Young women like Charlotte Proudman are wary of the daily drip-feed of condescending
    sexism endured in the workplace. Commenting on a woman's appearance makes her
    feel preyed upon and vulnerable. It's bullying behaviour and it should be officially
    recognised as harassment. What men don't understand is that women get judged
    on our looks in ways that blokes don't. ... Making comments on a woman's appearance
    reduces her to little more than a life-support system for a pair of breasts."
    --Kathy Lette

    "Charlotte Proudman has been labeled a Feminazi simply for publishing the sexist attitudes
    of a man who should be treating her as his professional peer. Alexander Carter-Silk may
    only be guilty of mild sexism compared to the usual nonsense women have to endure,
    but such remarks contribute to the insiduous inequality between men and women.
    It can seem almost cruel to berate someone such as Carter-Silk, who thinks he's simply
    making a friendly comment. However, his message illustrates the fact that women are
    still judged by our appearance rather than our skills and achievements. Men seem to
    believe they have the right to comment on women's appearance. ...Perhaps the reason
    that Carter-Silk's remarks have caused such a kerkuffle is because increasingly women
    are sick and tired of this casual sexism."
    --Julie Burchill
  9. 12 Sep '15 00:57
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Another revolting atitude from a woman than can't even take a compliment about her looks. These feminist women are continuing to get more asinine all the time.
    Why couldn't she simply say Thanks very much. It is fairly routine for me to be complimented on my appearance by much younger women, and more mature women. Is that sexist? Is it objectifying my masculinity? This B***ch is just so full of her self, that she can't take a complimentary remark. Would she prefer to be called ugly, or overly sensitive?

    And I seriously doubt that Duchess64 has ever had that problem, despite her saying that she feels the same.
  10. 12 Sep '15 01:00
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    'I define myself as a feminist who supports the liberation of women. ...
    Equalists ignore the gendered nature of the oppression of women."
    --Charlotte Proudman

    "Of course I am not a man-hating Feminazi. That is an incredibly insulting thing to say
    and just another mechanism to silence women."
    --Charlotte Proudman

    "There is a continuum between ...[text shortened]... le in the law.
    That is why I try to nip in the bud before it escalates."
    --Charlotte Proudman
    News Flash to Duchess64. As humans, we are a sexist species. We are keenly aware of our gender from puberty forward. That is unlikely to change to suit those women who want to ignore the differences, or pretend to do so.
  11. 12 Sep '15 10:48
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Another revolting atitude from a woman than can't even take a compliment about her looks. These feminist women are continuing to get more asinine all the time.
    in your line of work, have you ever been complimented on your penis? size or shape?

    if someone did do that, what would you respond with? would you "take the compliment"? or try to distance yourself from that weirdo?
  12. 12 Sep '15 10:53
    Originally posted by normbenign
    News Flash to Duchess64. As humans, we are a sexist species. We are keenly aware of our gender from puberty forward. That is unlikely to change to suit those women who want to ignore the differences, or pretend to do so.
    news flash to normbenign. as humans we are a murderous species. we are keenly aware of our murderous nature from the time we read a history book. that is unlikely to change.


    but the decent ones among us fukin try to abstain ourselves because we know the difference between good and evil
  13. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    12 Sep '15 11:15
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    While I have generally approved of Charlotte Proudman's statements against sexism,
    I have made it clear that I would have handled this particular incident differently.
    I don't how many similar comments about her photo she may already have received.

    In order to reduce the baneful influence of racism, sexism, or 'looksism' in general,
    perhaps LinkedIn ...[text shortened]... dreadful, just disappointing,
    and I might have been naive to expect it to have gone any better.
    Did you expect him to jump all over you or what? How could it have went better?
  14. 12 Sep '15 11:23
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Why couldn't she simply say Thanks very much. It is fairly routine for me to be complimented on my appearance by much younger women, and more mature women. Is that sexist? Is it objectifying my masculinity? This B***ch is just so full of her self, that she can't take a complimentary remark. Would she prefer to be called ugly, or overly sensitive?

    And I ...[text shortened]... usly doubt that Duchess64 has ever had that problem, despite her saying that she feels the same.
    do you understand what linkedin is?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LinkedIn

    you use it, as a professional, to find work. you use it, as a business, to find employees. it's not a dating site. commenting on the appearance of a professional there would be just as inappropriate as doing it on the street. or to your plumber, dentist, son's teacher, lawyer, and so on

    that woman let the caveman know that his advances are unwelcomed. that if she wanted someone's advances, she would have gone on tinder. (get someone young to google it in case you have no clue what that is because you live in the 60's).
  15. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    12 Sep '15 11:23
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    in your line of work, have you ever been complimented on your penis? size or shape?

    if someone did do that, what would you respond with? would you "take the compliment"? or try to distance yourself from that weirdo?
    I realized he was homosexual when he made the comment and rubbed up against me and so I distanced myself from him. If it had been a young women, I might have had a different reaction.