Biden is right on Afghanistan

@no1marauder said
It matters for accuracy. And the Taliban have a rather unique ideology though it is true it fits under what is generally called "radical Islam".

describe a key difference

@no1marauder said
The Taliban controlled well over 3/4 of Afghanistan when the US invaded. They are not a mere "group" among many but the dominant force in Afghanistan. The collapse of the present US installed government in the face of them shows who has real power in the country. Who know who "represents the Afghan people" but the fact that the Taliban, even after 20 years of US occupatio ...[text shortened]... reuters.com/world/china/taliban-advances-china-lays-groundwork-accept-an-awkward-reality-2021-08-14/

I don’t know why you used the term “mere group” because I didn’t. The reason that they always pack a punch is that they are made up of fanatical religious zealots going up against non committed mostly corrupt tribal based political parties who are probably never going to represent Afghanistan as a whole either.
You obviously believe that Afghanistan was a model of harmony and national unity when the invasion happened but I seem to remember the internally division riddled Taliban collapsing even quicker than the present regime.
The fact is that the Taliban will never bring about a stable Afghanistan and it’s neighbours are more than aware of that fact.
Al Qaeda are already re-establishing their themselves on the ground through their ties with the Taliban.
Oh well if China says it’s cool with an insurgent based Islamist extremist state on the border of the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region I’m sure nothing can go wrong there.

@mott-the-hoople said
describe a key difference

They are Afghan nationalists rather than a group interested in reforming and purifying the entire Muslim world.

@no1marauder said
It matters for accuracy. And the Taliban have a rather unique ideology though it is true it fits under what is generally called "radical Islam".

Unique in what sense? They are committed to implementing a hard line sharia system that executes adulterers and prohibits female education.
Yes the courage that Biden has shown in leaving the Afghan people to the merciful Taliban is commendable. Political courage is about doing the right thing despite it being politically unpopular. Your claim that Biden is showing courage here is extremely Orwellian. This is pure political expediency or worse a calculated act aimed at destabilising a region in which its two global rivals have an interest in stability.

@kevcvs57 said
I don’t know why you used the term “mere group” because I didn’t. The reason that they always pack a punch is that they are made up of fanatical religious zealots going up against non committed mostly corrupt tribal based political parties who are probably never going to represent Afghanistan as a whole either.
You obviously believe that Afghanistan was a model of harmony a ...[text shortened]... ist state on the border of the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region I’m sure nothing can go wrong there.

I really resent the tendency of so many writers on this board to immediately and deliberately misrepresent my views. I neither said nor remotely suggested that Afghanistan 2001 was a "model of harmony and national unity"; what I said was the Taliban had established control of 3/4 of that country. Considering that they started in 1994 as a small group of students in Kandahar that is remarkable achievement. Of course, the Taliban "collapsed" under the weight of US military intervention, but they remained a force under US occupation and now seem poised to retake the country.

Whether there's ever a "stable" Afghanistan is going to be up to the Afghans. A "stable" Taliban Afghanistan is hardly ideal as their ideology is anti-democratic and dismissive of human rights, but there's little outsiders can really do about it.

@no1marauder said
They are Afghan nationalists rather than a group interested in reforming and purifying the entire Muslim world.

The same argument could be made for allowing domestic abuse as long as they keep it indoors.
Oh and how do you explain 9/11 being coordinated from that insular country. The reason that terrorist groups can always get a foothold is they share an ideology with the Taliban and the Taliban are inherently weak and unstable when they actually govern.

@kevcvs57 said
Unique in what sense? They are committed to implementing a hard line sharia system that executes adulterers and prohibits female education.
Yes the courage that Biden has shown in leaving the Afghan people to the merciful Taliban is commendable. Political courage is about doing the right thing despite it being politically unpopular. Your claim that Biden is showing courage ...[text shortened]... ed act aimed at destabilising a region in which its two global rivals have an interest in stability.

All evidence suggests the Afghan People support the Taliban. They are, of course, not "merciful", but there aren't a lot of governments in the Middle East or elsewhere that are.

The US was in Afghanistan for 20 years and recent developments show that did not change the power calculus in that country. Why you are so interested in continuation of that mistake is a mystery to me.

@kevcvs57 said
The same argument could be made for allowing domestic abuse as long as they keep it indoors.
Oh and how do you explain 9/11 being coordinated from that insular country. The reason that terrorist groups can always get a foothold is they share an ideology with the Taliban and the Taliban are inherently weak and unstable when they actually govern.

Actually the evidence says the Taliban knew nothing of 9/11 and were really pissed that Bin Laden did it.

I can easily get links if you want them. Here's one:

"Bin Laden had lied to Omar in July 2001, when he promised that al-Qaeda would launch no more overseas attacks (while secretly plotting the 9/11 attacks)." https://thediplomat.com/2020/06/the-taliban-and-al-qaeda-enduring-partnership-or-liability/

The Afghan Taliban have never staged an attack anywhere but in their own country and are not a threat to anyone but Afghans:

" The Taliban remains solely focused on Afghanistan and has never accepted al-Qaeda’s global jihadist ambitions. " (same article)

It's up to Afghans to decide whether they want the Taliban to rule their country and my or your disapproval doesn't seem to matter to them one bit.

@no1marauder said
I really resent the tendency of so many writers on this board to immediately and deliberately misrepresent my views. I neither said nor remotely suggested that Afghanistan 2001 was a "model of harmony and national unity"; what I said was the Taliban had established control of 3/4 of that country. Considering that they started in 1994 as a small group of students in Kandah ...[text shortened]... anti-democratic and dismissive of human rights, but there's little outsiders can really do about it.

Well my exaggeration of your position was a rhetorical device and not to be taken as a literal interpretation of it.
I just do not see the difference in what the US under Biden is doing here and what the US under Trump did in Syria when he left the Kurds to their fate or going further back leaving the Marsh Arabs and Northern Kurds of Iraq to the tender mercies of an angry and humiliated Saddam Hussain after the first Gulf War. There is a pattern forming and it’s not a pretty one.

@kevcvs57 said
Well my exaggeration of your position was a rhetorical device and not to be taken as a literal interpretation of it.
I just do not see the difference in what the US under Biden is doing here and what the US under Trump did in Syria when he left the Kurds to their fate or going further back leaving the Marsh Arabs and Northern Kurds of Iraq to the tender mercies of an angry ...[text shortened]... iated Saddam Hussain after the first Gulf War. There is a pattern forming and it’s not a pretty one.

It's a good thing to leave the People in other countries to "their fate" rather than endlessly war on other People to try to determine other People's fate.

@no1marauder said
They are Afghan nationalists rather than a group interested in reforming and purifying the entire Muslim world.

I asked the difference betweem mujahideen and taliban. you answered a question I didnt ask and failed to answer my question,

@mott-the-hoople said
I asked the difference betweem mujahideen and taliban. you answered a question I didnt ask and failed to answer my question,

(Shrug) Mujahideen is a broad term meaning Islamic guerilla fighters. They had varied ideologies with a shared goal of ending foreign control of Muslim countries. What would happen afterwards was a point of contention that the various groups didn't agree on.https://www.britannica.com/topic/mujahideen-Afghani-rebels

The Taliban had a specific vision of an Afghan with a spiritual leader enforcing an extreme form of sharia law. They battled other Afghans, including many of the Mujahideen, from 1994-2001 and gained control of 3/4 of the country before the US invasion.

@no1marauder said
(Shrug) Mujahideen is a broad term meaning Islamic guerilla fighters. They had varied ideologies with a shared goal of ending foreign control of Muslim countries. What would happen afterwards was a point of contention that the various groups didn't agree on.https://www.britannica.com/topic/mujahideen-Afghani-rebels

The Taliban had a specific vision of an Afghan with a ...[text shortened]... y of the Mujahideen, from 1994-2001 and gained control of 3/4 of the country before the US invasion.

six of one, a half dozen of the other.

biden has screwed this up, over twice as many troops there now than when Trump had peace in the region.

@mott-the-hoople said
six of one, a half dozen of the other.

biden has screwed this up, over twice as many troops there now than when Trump had peace in the region.

LMAO!

Trump never had "peace in the region"; fighting in Afghanistan continued for the entire time he was in office. He never fully withdrew like he promised because he feared political fallout.

Biden has set a hard date of August 31, 2021 for total withdrawal and sent in a force to ensure the safety of Americans and others leaving the country. Right wing nuts opposing measuring that support the safety of our diplomats and others is a bit much but apparently you really don't give the slightest s**t about Americans IF their deaths would help your political side.