No one is claiming that Manning is mentally ill nor is anyone disputing that she/he has a legal right. Other people object for a variety of reasons. Human physiology is a very powerful determinant, usually. The idea that self identification is enough to justify a transgender transformation in itself appears flimsy. They object for religious reasons as well.
Originally posted by finnegan We need people like Chelsea Manning. It is surely every good citizen's duty to risk their freedom in order to expose injustice and hold evil to account. But in this case we know enough about the circumstances of her actions to appreciate that she was greatly affected by poor mental health and this is relevant to both her behaviour - in so far as we determ ...[text shortened]... h her as the mouse and Trump as the cat, taunted into doing something nasty.
Hateful people.
From what I understand manning was motivated by resentment of his/her superiors not by any altruistic endeavour to make truth known although I could be wrong. Yes he/she did the world a service, those videos posted by wikileaks of American atrocities were horrendous and they fully deserved to be exposed, however I have no doubt because of his/her transgender status will of course be seized upon and used as political leverage by those advocating LGBT rights.
Originally posted by finnegan We need people like Chelsea Manning. It is surely every good citizen's duty to risk their freedom in order to expose injustice and hold evil to account. But in this case we know enough about the circumstances of her actions to appreciate that she was greatly affected by poor mental health and this is relevant to both her behaviour - in so far as we determ ...[text shortened]... h her as the mouse and Trump as the cat, taunted into doing something nasty.
Hateful people.
Your second to last paragraph is wrong; there is generally a 100 day delay before a release after commutation in order for the soon to be freed prisoner to make arrangements for housing, employment, etc. etc. As far as King Donald I:
legal analysts say Trump will have no power to undo Obama’s grant of clemency.
I have not stated that my religion can decide anything for anyone except for me and infact I have consistently stated on these forums that people are free moral agents. What I am trying to get you to understand although you seem rather unwilling is that if you want people to be more accepting of people like Manning you have to have something more substantial than self identification.
I am not bothered by how Manning chooses to live at all. I am bothered though by a lack of reason as to why people should be more accepting of transgenders.
documents ended in 2009, just before the president set a new policy in the war; and claimed that the whole episode was suspect because WikiLeaks was against the war. Still, it was hard to dismiss official internal memos such as: “The general view of Afghans is that current gov’t is worse than the Taliban.
Among the revelations that gai ...[text shortened]... day in prison would have been more appropriate than a commutation after 7 years in custody IMO.
Donald Trump will have no power to undo the commutation, so I fail to see what difference that makes.
Outgoing Presidents generally do make some pardon and commutation decisions that would have been politically risky earlier in their terms. Certainly this can be counted as one of those.
EDIT: I cannot vouch for President Obama's "sincerity" but the decision to commute does save Chelsea Manning decades in prison.
Originally posted by no1marauder Your second to last paragraph is wrong; there is generally a 100 day delay before a release after commutation in order for the soon to be freed prisoner to make arrangements for housing, employment, etc. etc. As far as King Donald I:
legal analysts say Trump will have no power to undo Obama’s grant of clemency.
I am sorry but that's not good enough! you need to convince us why we should be more accepting. Calling people bigots or telling them to mind their own business does not cut it!
Originally posted by robbie carrobie No one is claiming that Manning is mentally ill nor is anyone disputing that she/he has a legal right. Other people object for a variety of reasons. Human physiology is a very powerful determinant, usually. The idea that self identification is enough to justify a transgender transformation in itself appears flimsy. They object for religious reasons as well.
Not sure what you both intend by the term "mentally ill." I agree that it is not insane to self identify as transgender but it is very much the case - as reported in many places - that she has now and had at the time of her decision to leak secrets significant mental health problems, which have been hugely affected by the inhumane, shameful treatment inflicted one her. e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/17/chelsea-manning-sentence-commuted-barack-obama
The soldier has experienced some very hard times while in military prison. In 2010 she was transferred from Iraq and Kuwait to the military brig at Quantico, Virginia, where she was put through prolonged solitary confinement.
Manning, formerly known as US army private first class Bradley Manning, revealed after being convicted of espionage that she identifies as a woman. She has said she was confronting gender dysphoria at the time of the leaks while deployed in Iraq.
She has endured recent challenges with her morale and mental health, having attempted suicide on at least one occasion last year. The US military responded to that attempt by punishing her with further solitary confinement.
The idea that suicide attempts should be punished with solitary confinement is a cruelty devised in a sick mind.
Originally posted by finnegan Not sure what you both intend by the term "mentally ill." I agree that it is not insane to self identify as transgender but it is very much the case - as reported in many places - that she has now and had at the time of her decision to leak secrets significant mental health problems, which have been hugely affected by the inhumane, shameful treatment inflic ...[text shortened]... icide attempts should be punished with solitary confinement is a cruelty devised in a sick mind.
The transgender thing is clouding the issue of what Manning actually managed to achieve as cited by No.1 Marauder. It is rather impressive. I agree, people who are contemplating taking their own life need counsel.
Originally posted by vivify I don't see how Obama can throw out Russian embasadors over the Clinton emails, while pardoning someone for a similar but more serious crime.
Then you need glasses.
Russian "embasadors" weren't thrown out over the Clinton e-mails; Russian intelligence agents engaged in trying to affect the US election were.
Manning was not "pardoned"; her sentence was commuted. She will have served almost 7 years, which is virtually unprecedented for a whistle blower (which is what she was, not a spy).
18 Jan '17 22:411 edit
Chelsea Manning's sentence commuted
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